Gas Safe Registration - Legality clarification please

Spiggle

Thanks gas4you,

No intention of ripping apart walls and rearranging pipes in the bathroom. So I'll look at 28Kw and 30Kw for the other makes.

Thank you and all the best,
Spigs

southcoastrgi

yes i can believe it, up until June last year we were involved in the warmfront scheme (ducks as the flack starts), all we fitted was ideal boilers (we had no choice), seems strange that the same building contained ideal boilers, warmsure (ideals service agents) & the government dept responsible for running the scheme, now who am i to think that something wasn't quite right with that set up, you can all draw your own conclusions.

gas4you

AFAIK Warmsure have always been part and parcel of Ideal.

vaio

keystone wrote: »

.........Short answer is you must be competant and GSR to do gaswork in any house that is not yours and occupied by you...........

I know about the general requirement of competence and the GRS requirement if you do domestic stuff for money but the ownership/occupancy bits you mention are a new one on me.

Don't suppose you have a link for that?

southcoastrgi

vaio wrote: »

Don't suppose you have a link for that?

NO we don't because it should be illegal

sorry to be blunt but this should have been outlawed years ago, if you aren't qualified enough to be gas safe reg then your not qualified enough to touch gas, end of.

cyclonebri1

keithgillyon wrote: »

NO we don't because it should be illegal

sorry to be blunt but this should have been outlawed years ago, if you aren't qualified enough to be gas safe reg then your not qualified enough to touch gas, end of.

It is a strange one Keith, and I think I actually agree with you.

I've known this to be true for more years than I care to remember.

But I'm glad it's not outlawed.

I have fitted full gas fired systems in my last three homes, no one died and all are still standing.

The key word here is competent.

That will never be put to the test until there is an actual disaster,
You may know better than me but has there actually ever been one??, certainly not many otherwise things would have changed.

And under the present system the only time competency has to be proved for homeowners is when it has all gone wrong.

I consider myself competent, but see the issue ;)

southcoastrgi

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

It is a strange one Keith, and I think I actually agree with you.

I've known this to be true for more years than I care to remember.

But I'm glad it's not outlawed.

I have fitted full gas fired systems in my last three homes, no one died and all are still standing.

The key word here is competent.

That will never be put to the test until there is an actual disaster,
You may know better than me but has there actually ever been one??, certainly not many otherwise things would have changed.

And under the present system the only time competency has to be proved for homeowners is when it has all gone wrong.

I consider myself competent, but see the issue ;)

i do agree to a certain extent, however & this is where it all falls apart, if you are not GSR & are therefore subject to inspections or re-assesment who is to say you are competent ? If something major were to happen you would only be accountable to the great man above (& i know this post is below yours but i'm not talking about you), you could have been a plumber or a diy'er for years & soldered thousands of fittings without a prob but we all get leaks at sometime, how far does competent go ? if you have never fitted a boiler before but have installed a cooker does this make you competent to fit that boiler ? i would say no, i do not fit fires & they are not on my reg but i had to know how to fit & service a fire on my reassesments because it's part of the core, so does that make me safe to fit a flue liner & gas fire in my own home ? i would say no it doesn't even though i know how to do it, you as an ex-engineer went through years of training & it prob continued through out your working life to bring you upto speed on new things & new regs, so my point is who judges compenticy just because you have sucessfully soldered an elbow 10 years ago are you now safe to fit your own boiler, cooker, fire ? in my book the answer is a resounding NO

cyclonebri1

keithgillyon wrote: »

i do agree to a certain extent, however & this is where it all falls apart, if you are not GSR & are therefore subject to inspections or re-assesment who is to say you are competent ? If something major were to happen you would only be accountable to the great man above (& i know this post is below yours but i'm not talking about you), you could have been a plumber or a diy'er for years & soldered thousands of fittings without a prob but we all get leaks at sometime, how far does competent go ? if you have never fitted a boiler before but have installed a cooker does this make you competent to fit that boiler ? i would say no, i do not fit fires & they are not on my reg but i had to know how to fit & service a fire on my reassesments because it's part of the core, so does that make me safe to fit a flue liner & gas fire in my own home ? i would say no it doesn't even though i know how to do it, you as an ex-engineer went through years of training & it prob continued through out your working life to bring you upto speed on new things & new regs, so my point is who judges compenticy just because you have sucessfully soldered an elbow 10 years ago are you now safe to fit your own boiler, cooker, fire ? in my book the answer is a resounding NO

Totally agree, but in this case it's not really a case of proving competency although I said it was earlier.

If things don't go wrong there will never be the need to do that.

You need to rewind and read that I said it is wrong and is an anomaly, ie, extraordinary by it's inclusion.

Maybe I would make myself clearer by saying the way it would go wrong for the householder would be if he was proven incompetent, as in reality he'd never need to prove he was competent.

I'm with you in sentiment, but from a personal point of view, I'm glad it's how it is, (for me), take care,;);):T:T

Spiggle

Hi Guys,

Ok, I've got four trades sorted to give me prices. Interesting initial conversations and I'd love some feedback please.

Firstly, on the broag remeha, only one had vaguely heard of them. On checking on their website and using the find an installer feature, they don't have any installers in Wales. If I push for having one installed would it be a problem do you think? I'm thinking do I want to have someone install a boiler they have no experience with. (All are GSR!)

Secondly, almost all laughed that I had an ideal isar. But one suggested that Ideal have now got their act together and the Ideal Logik plus was a much improved boiler and has a seven year parts and labour warranty on it. Your thoughts much appreciated.

If pushed to choose between Vaillant and WB which would you go with (all things being equal)?

And what of Veismann? Opinions please?

Priorities will always be efficiency of boiler, reliability in use especially in winter, cheapest running costs and that it'll fit in a standard width kitchen cupboard.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

All the best,
Spigs

southcoastrgi

Spiggle wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Ok, I've got four trades sorted to give me prices. Interesting initial conversations and I'd love some feedback please.

Firstly, on the broag remeha, only one had vaguely heard of them. On checking on their website and using the find an installer feature, they don't have any installers in Wales. If I push for having one installed would it be a problem do you think? I'm thinking do I want to have someone install a boiler they have no experience with. (All are GSR!)

In this instance a boiler is a boiler, they all sit on the wall & have a flue off of the top & pipes coming from underneath, most boilers are no different to fit, they all have a gas/air ratio valve that should be set up on commisioning, the difference comes on repairs & servicing & that is something your installer (at least for a min of 5 years) won't have to worry about (i know they should be serviced every year however in my experience they won't need to be stripped down in that time scale).

Secondly, almost all laughed that I had an ideal isar. But one suggested that Ideal have now got their act together and the Ideal Logik plus was a much improved boiler and has a seven year parts and labour warranty on it. Your thoughts much appreciated.

I'm not surprised they laughed the ideal icos & isar were a complete pile of c*ap always breaking down, the logic plus is by all accounts is a better boiler although i wouldn't fit one (once bitten & all that).

If pushed to choose between Vaillant and WB which would you go with (all things being equal)?

I don't fit vailant either so can't comment on those apart from two i've had to repair less than a yr old due to leaking divertor valves, IMO WB are too expensive & are an absolute nitemare to work on, which will refleck in on going repair costs.

And what of Veismann? Opinions please?

never fitted one although the merchants give glowing reports (but then they would wouldn't they)

Priorities will always be efficiency of boiler, reliability in use especially in winter, cheapest running costs and that it'll fit in a standard width kitchen cupboard.

All new boilers have to be "A" rated which means over 90% efficent so thats not really a concern, all the boilers above "should" be relaible, if they are set up correctly at the install running costs should be about the same (providing the outputs of all the boilers is roughly the same), sizes do vary across model ranges apart from the Remeha Avanta which is 400mm wide, 600mm high & 300 deep.

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