Gas Safe Registration - Legality clarification please

Spiggle

Thanks cyclonebri,

If joe bloggs fitted gas boilers and he is not and has never claimed to be GSR is every installation joe has done illegal please?

I just want to know what is legal under the law of England and Wales.

Thank you,
Spigs

cyclonebri1

gas4you wrote: »

Signing off someone else's work is not illegal, but just plain stupid.

Whoever signs it off is then TOTALLY responsible legally for the installation and any faults/problems afterwards and you can bet someone like this and his mate would be nowhere to be found if there were problems!

gas4you.that's simply the defensive answer that a trader that is not representative of the trade would give.

If you are not confident to judge the work of others, take a payment for it, and sign the form either way then you are part of the problem not the answer.

Sorry, it's simply too too defensive of the trade.

Simple question, can you check a system and say if it's safe or can't you????????????????????

You are not signing to say the system is perfect or will last forever, simply that it passes the criteria that some misinformed board has laid down, oK hard but think it through.

southcoastrgi

gas4you wrote: »

Signing off someone else's work is not illegal, but just plain stupid.

Whoever signs it off is then TOTALLY responsible legally for the installation and any faults/problems afterwards and you can bet someone like this and his mate would be nowhere to be found if there were problems!

I think that gas safe would have a different view to you, when it was corgi they didn't even allow you to take the boiler out of the box, as soon as you touch the flue or connect into the gas supply you need to be Gas Safe Reg, I have in the past spoken to Gas Safe & their view is to sign off someone elses work you need to be able to inspect the new gas pipework that has been installed even if that means taking up the flooring, the flue needs to be completely removed & re-fitted by the GSI, & remember a gas appliance cannot by law be left connected to the gas supply if it hasn't been commissioned, they will & have gone after both parties if they find someone signing off a non reg installers work.

Spiggle wrote: »

Hi gas4you,

I have history with the firm that he quoted anyway so it's not going to happen with him/them. Long story not worth repeating here as digression.

You have helped me before and I respect your posts for their direct and helpful nature. I am well aware of the wisdom arguments - safety, reliance, security, etc. but that is not what I'm asking about.

Please would you just tell me whether it is illegal to have a non-GSR person install a new boiler please?

I have read on here about new installations being logged/recorded somewhere. Where is that please? Is it the local authority/building regs/compliance?

I just can't seem to get a straight answer to bottom out my question. Please ignore the person referred to in my original post as I will not be using them at all and are a diversion from the question I really need to know the answer to.

Thanks in advance,
Spigs

There is def something else going on here with regard to the OP's post, so Spigs me thinks it's time to come clean.

gas4you

Keith.

Not wanting to seem to blatantly disagree with you, I have had this out with GSR in the past, and their view, at the time I hasten to add as god knows, they change their minds more than I do my underpants!, was that they basically didn't care, but would hold the signatory as fully legally responsible for the installation.

Cyclone, yes of course I would be able to tell if an installation was to standard or not, but that is not really the point I was trying to make.

Apart from the safety and regs side, you also have to consider the benchmark and manufacturers warranty side of things.

You are also signing of the boiler saying it has been flushed and commissioned as per the MI's, so if they reject a warranty call, it falls back on the signatory.

After saying all that, I have happily signed off a mates work who is no longer Gas Safe Registered.

He trained me and I worked for him for many years. I trust him and know his work is always excellent. He has also signed off oil boilers for me as all he is qualified now for is oil.

Would I do it for a stranger? Definitely not.

The chances are that a phone call out of the blue asking to sign off a boiler, would have been a DIY installation by the home owner doing it on the cheap.

OP. The only direct answer I can give, is that it is illegal for anyone not gas registered to fit a gas appliance whilst charging a fee for the privilege.

southcoastrgi

yes i do agree that it seems to change & have different views depending on who you talk to at GS & i completely agree with your last statement.

joinaman

OP. The only direct answer I can give, is that it is illegal for anyone not gas registered to fit a gas appliance whilst charging a fee for the privilege.

BUT what if he is not charging a fee ??
If no money is exchanged for carrying out these works, say it's for a relative , what then? does the " Competant Person" come in to it or is it still illegal ?

keystone

J'man

You may only do gaswork if you are competant.

You may only do gaswork for reward if you are competant and GSR. For reward may be equivalent to a few beers and some childminding from a relative or a free holiday from your mate in the travel business. It still constitutes payment (the taxman calls it benefit in kind) so to do gaswork for a relative or a friend you must be GSR.

That IS the legal position.

Cheers

southcoastrgi

joinaman wrote: »

OP. The only direct answer I can give, is that it is illegal for anyone not gas registered to fit a gas appliance whilst charging a fee for the privilege.

BUT what if he is not charging a fee ??
If no money is exchanged for carrying out these works, say it's for a relative , what then? does the " Competant Person" come in to it or is it still illegal ?

this is a very grey area, however i think you would need to prove that no money changed hands plus it is normally only in your own home, plus if you do it as a living ie a plumber but not reg for gas i think you could find yourself on a very sticky wicket

keystone

Sorry but I don't see it as grey at all but this is now getting into an area where I've had posts deleted in the past despite saying it exactly how it is.

Short answer is you must be competant and GSR to do gaswork in any house that is not yours and occupied by you. Stopwatch started to see how long it takes for this post to be reported and vanish despite the unequivocal fact that it is true and its a potential (depending on how you define competant) loophole that needs closing but then again the whole point of the Register was and is to drive the cowboys out of the gasfitting industry.

Cheers

southcoastrgi

keystone wrote: »

Sorry but I don't see it as grey at all but this is now getting into an area where I've had posts deleted in the past despite saying it exactly how it is.

Short answer is you must be competant and GSR to do gaswork in any house that is not yours and occupied by you. Stopwatch started to see how long it takes for this post to be reported and vanish despite the unequivocal fact that it is true and its a potential (depending on how you define competant) loophole that needs closing but then again the whole point of the Register was and is to drive the cowboys out of the gasfitting industry.

Cheers

sorry i missed your post before i gave my answer, i could not agree with you more, like i've said before the loophole needs closing & should have been done years ago, in my view you should be reg with GS to do any kind of gas work & if you aren't then it should be totally illegal, i don't know why your posts on this get deleted (someone got something to hide perhaps), i mean if my posts got deleted because someone didn't like them i'd be on two & have my MSE newbi sign back up.