Scam or our mistake?

byjimini

sniggings wrote: »

I con yes but it does say

The actual iPad in the the photo does not come with the item, you are bidding on a picture

Yes, embedded in the description so you can easily miss it. Also note the PIC in the title is put next to the model number.

Crowqueen

The thing with listings is they are often designed to tempt the buyer into bidding quickly,

People who say 'but it's in the listing' and then you look at the listing and it's a dense paragraph of irrelevant blurb with one sentence in the middle revealing the problem, or a tiny description with an immediately eyegrabbing sexy photo or long spiel of idiotic terms obscuring the issue from normal view, are doing themselves no favours.

At best they simply don't realise how buyers read listings.

At worst they know and are actively taking advantage - it's what most advertisers do, but legal responsibilities go far beyond hiding a tiny bit of 'this is only a picture' text in a listing.

It's always important to list clearly as well as comprehensively. I try very hard, except when copying out the blurb on a book jacket, to include all salient information in short paragraphs separated by clear space, and in comfortably readable text. It seems to have done the trick for me.

sniggings

Crowqueen wrote: »

Luckily this would not really count - there would be enough evidence of deliberate deception rather than simply someone saying "tough luck". Consumer law thankfully no longer works this way, although SNAD disputes may be tricky.

Yes, people should use common sense, but the real villain is the scammer, not the victim.

I think Trading Standards might also be interested - a quick call to Consumer Direct should help investigate them.

you should have read my post better as I did say it was a con and yes ebay will refund but maybe not if the picture disclosure was instead talking about damage, that was the point I was making.

Not sure when there is only about 5 lines of text you can claim anything was buried in the text though. Ebay have been known to make some daft decisions in the past. As said I agree no matter where in the text the picture being mentioned was it is still a con, not so sure ebay would see it the same way if damage was mentioned even if buried in the text.

soolin

Whilst this is a nasty sort of scam and one that I hope ebay take seriously I do tend to echo the above points. Do buyers really not bother reading 5 lines of text - seriously?

I can only marvel at people rich enough to afford to spend a couple of hundred pounds and not bother reading anything at all.

Hopefully though ebay /paypal will treat this seriously and the OP will not be out of pocket.

RHemmings

soolin wrote: »

Whilst this is a nasty sort of scam and one that I hope ebay take seriously I do tend to echo the above points. Do buyers really not bother reading 5 lines of text - seriously?

I can only marvel at people rich enough to afford to spend a couple of hundred pounds and not bother reading anything at all.

Hopefully though ebay /paypal will treat this seriously and the OP will not be out of pocket.

That's what makes me think that "it takes two" for this scam to work. A scammy seller (in my opinion - if lies are at least present in the listing - which doesn't mean that the truth isn't there as well) and a buyer who doesn't read the listing in full detail. But blame is not a either or proposition. Just because the buyer has some blame doesn't mean that the seller therefore should escape blame. Both can be at fault.

Note that I haven't yet seen the listing that led to this thread. So this is a general comment about this sort of ebay event, not a comment on the sale/purchase of the IPad picture.

Crowqueen

I agree. Sellers set their listing up so buyers will get excited about the item. The blame should lie first of all on the person who takes advantage of natural reactions and only second on the person that falls for it.

I've had rather distressing and aggressive phone calls from 'phone companies' who claim I owe them money for insurance that I know I cancelled when I found out what I was paying. Since I cancelled with the company and not just with the bank, I know I don't owe anyone the £30 they tried to make me pay by giving over my bank details. It was a completely arbitrary charge, but I still had to phone my provider just to check I didn't owe anything.

Anyone less savvy about things in that position would have paid up - and possibly exposed their bank details to scammers who might help themselves to more than what they claimed was owing. But the tactics used even made me worried for a few days that they would serve me with court papers to recover a debt. Of course nothing came of it, but the way they seemed so genuine was worrying.

You see stuff on Watchdog all the time about dodgy tradesmen who rip people off for tens of thousands by targetting the vulnerable and the elderly. Do those people deserve blame for falling for scams? Do those sellers only do it because people fall for it? What about the mentally ill? Children? Not everyone is a fully-focused, rational adult. Everyone is susceptible to canny advertising.

There is no getting round the blame the sellers should accept for sharp practices. None whatsoever. If eBay is ever going to be safe, this sort of thing should be totally unacceptable to even upload, and people should not have to be exposed to it. Zero tolerance.

Consumer law not only protects the stupid but protects us from the sharp.

Elvisia

There was a case of this on Judge Judy! There was an American woman who had sold I think it was a camera phone online and hidden in the text it said it was just a photo. Judge Judy went ballistic and made the woman pay all sorts of charges and called her a scammer. This woman had a husband at home who seemed to think this was an amazing idea, I think Judy thought she was being rather controlled by her husband but what was so infuriating was this woman was just smirking throughout the whole thing, saying she was so clever for ripping this woman off. I thought Judge Judy was going to have a seizure at one point.

So it's very common! Another scam is to offer up the chance to enter a competition to win an ipad, so there's no ipad there at all.

Crowqueen

Good to see a judge - albeit an American entertainment one - siding with the right people.

sham63

I agree that the mention of it only being a picture is deliberately buried in the text. Here's the description from the scammer's listing for anyone who's not seen it-

Put together your laptop, iPod and iPhone – you get the dynamic Apple iPad. Weighing a mere 1.5 lbs, the32GB iPad can store up to 8000 songs or 32 hours of video. Enjoy the fastest Wi-Fi networks with the Apple Wi-Fi iPad as it automatically locates the available networks; while the Bluetooth connectivity cuts the clutter with Bluetooth headphones and wireless Apple keypads. The 1024-by-768 pixel resolution displays crystal clear images on the 9.7-inch screen of the Apple iPad – watch your movies, videos, and TV shows crisper than before. The actual iPad in the the photo does not come with the item, you are bidding on a picture. The reengineered Multi-Touch screen of the 32 GB iPad makes the operation more precise than your iPhone or iPod. Customize your Apple Wi-Fi iPad with nearly 140,000 applications - be it for social networking, games, music or even serious business. The Apple iPad, with a perfect blend of looks and performance is probably the only gadget you will ever need again – except of course, to make calls.

soolin

sham63 wrote: »

I agree that the mention of it only being a picture is deliberately buried in the text. Here's the description from the scammer's listing for anyone who's not seen it-

Put together your laptop, iPod and iPhone – you get the dynamic Apple iPad. Weighing a mere 1.5 lbs, the32GB iPad can store up to 8000 songs or 32 hours of video. Enjoy the fastest Wi-Fi networks with the Apple Wi-Fi iPad as it automatically locates the available networks; while the Bluetooth connectivity cuts the clutter with Bluetooth headphones and wireless Apple keypads. The 1024-by-768 pixel resolution displays crystal clear images on the 9.7-inch screen of the Apple iPad – watch your movies, videos, and TV shows crisper than before. The actual iPad in the the photo does not come with the item, you are bidding on a picture. The reengineered Multi-Touch screen of the 32 GB iPad makes the operation more precise than your iPhone or iPod. Customize your Apple Wi-Fi iPad with nearly 140,000 applications - be it for social networking, games, music or even serious business. The Apple iPad, with a perfect blend of looks and performance is probably the only gadget you will ever need again – except of course, to make calls.

If it is the auction I found then the font and size is exactly the same- so basically buyer read nothing at all.

I am still amazed at people who have enough money to spend hundreds of pounds without reading a word of what they are buying. I bought some samples of wedding items yesterday and spent a grand total of £11 on 4 items, but to me £11 is still £11 and I read all the blurb about what I was buying before I connfirmed my bid.

I do however still believe this is a scam at least an intention to deceive and that PayPal should force the seller to refund and possibly have restrictions placed on the account as well to stop them listing again.