Refusing to pay restaurant bill

nearlyrich

I think you should pay for food that is up to expectation, I recently ordered a steak with mash and onion rings, I know it's an odd combo but I like it. The steak was perfect but they served it with mushrooms which I had asked to be left off as I have an intolerance to them. The second plate had stone cold mash and onion rings, they brought it back suitably hot with a complimentary large glass of wine which saved me £6 so I was happy with that.

I understand that the law is you pay what you think it's worth and leave your contact info so they can take you to a civil court if they don't agree.

arcon5

And one last thing - not leaving a tip for the waiter/waitress because of something the chef or manager did or failed to do, is like blaming the cleaner for the prices.

It coulf of course be argued the whole concept of tipping waiters is flawed, after all they are also subject to national minimum wage - as opposed to some other industries whereby people are self employed and not necessary meeting such wage which we do not tip (couriers, cabbies, market traders, etc)

OlliesDad

arcon5 wrote: »

It coulf of course be argued the whole concept of tipping waiters is flawed, after all they are also subject to national minimum wage - as opposed to some other industries whereby people are self employed and not necessary meeting such wage which we do not tip (couriers, cabbies, market traders, etc)

When i worked for a particular mexican themed chain restaurant I was paid below minimum wage. The restaurant would then use the credit card tips to top up the hourly wage, they then paid for any shortfall between this and minimum wage.

I believe the law has changed on this practice now though.

arcon5

OlliesDad wrote: »

When i worked for a particular mexican themed chain restaurant I was paid below minimum wage. The restaurant would then use the credit card tips to top up the hourly wage, they then paid for any shortfall between this and minimum wage.

I believe the law has changed on this practice now though.

A lot of restaurants used to do this, i think it's shocking practice and pleased it's no longer lawful.

But I don't see why it seems to be customary to tip a waiter being paid minimum wage for offering good service but not the person sat at the till in a grocery store earning the same.
Although I do tip when the overall experience has been excellent. Unless they add 'service charge' to my bill automatically in which case they got nothing.

Faith177

Till staff often earn more than resturant/pub staff.

For example my brother 21 earns £7 odd per hour as a cashier at one of the big four. I earn £6.05 working pt in a resturant.

All our tips are shared and because it is done on an hours worked scheme I often end up with as little as 1.20 despite working some of the busiest days.

Resturant/pub staff are some of the worst jobs you can do as not only are the wages rubbish the breaks are a joke and most of the time people just treat you like something they have brought in off the street

Guifre

Further to my (lengthy) post yesterday, there are some very interesting opinions around. I suppose everyone has an opinion on tips, in particular.

In my experience (3 restaurant chains, 15 years) tips have been kept by the waiter or waitress who received them, except in one specific restaurant where a (small) percentage was given by each server to a pot that the chefs would share out, once a month or so.

In all of these businesses, chefs have had higher hourly rates (or salaries in the case of head chefs), but this is by no means the only relevant issue. Without wishing to generalise, the bubbly, outgoing people who spoke good English (if they weren't natives) work front of house, in the restaurants I've worked in. Cases of a chef training to work tables are extremely rare, but some waiters have trained in the kitchen to get more hours.

Which brings me to my second point - in my experience chefs rarely struggle for a decent number of hours - kitchen staff are needed for prep, service and closedown from, say, 8am until 1am. Long shifts are commonplace, and therefore so are 40+ hour weeks. Waiting staff tend to get a lot of 3-5 hour shifts, to fit the trade patterns. Without tips, there's no way to live even carefully on 20-25 hours per week. Many people with full time minimum wage jobs also do a shift or two in a restaurant each week to supplement their wage. Tips allow such people to get by, when their full time job doesn't pay enough to live on.

That said, I do know waiting staff on 40-hour weeks. They earn serious money with their tips. I won't say it's not hard work, and anyone who thinks that dealing with the public in such an intimate scenario isn't a skilled job should give it a try. Doing the job well, being on your feet constantly and keeping difficult children (and adults!) happy is tough. That said, a waiter or waitress on 45 hours plus tips is probably earning more than most of the managers, and that can't be right.

Also not right is the practice in some restaurants where the management take some or all of the tips (before, perhaps, distributing some of it back out). There is a Fair Tips Charter in the industry but many businesses don't follow it. It states that all tips should be retained by the server. It's likely, in my opinion, that many don't follow it because they don't pay management and chefs what they should.

All in all, it's fair to question why waiting staff should receive tips when others on minimum wage don't. I can assure any doubters out there that waiters' hours at minimum wage is not enough to live on, but I'm sure the same can be said of other jobs. And needing to be available when needed means you can't just take another job and hope it will fit in around the restaurant. What I will say (and some will scoff at this) is that waiting tables is one of the hardest jobs I've ever done, though it's obviously less stressful than e.g. restaurant management in most respects. Remember, also, that the disrespect shown by some members of the public towards waiting staff in this country, would be unheard of elsewhere in Europe, where being a waiter/waitress is a highly respected profession, and (usually) salaried. It's much more common in, say, France for a person to work as a waiter their whole life and live fairly comfortably.

I would also point out that good waiters and waitresses are skilled workers (far more than line cooks in my experience) and therefore undoubtedly underpaid at minimum wage. I would also say that, in my experience, 9 to 5 workers who have previous restaurant experience might miss the buzz of the hospitality trade, but they know they have a far easier life in their office jobs. A lot of people leave one for the other to lessen stress and unsociable hours, albeit sometimes at the expense of a pay cut.

What a lot of the issues come back to are the wage policies of restaurant companies, and they are unlikely to change thanks to inertia, the availability of tips, and demands of shareholders to run restaurants at low labour cost.

There will always, I think, be people who never tip, people who (almost) always tip, and those who tip conditional on service quality, in the UK. But I would hope that everyone would want to understand the reality of the industry before making tipping decisions. Most waiting staff aren't able to get 40 hours, most rely on tips to live and only a skilled waiter or waitress can make a visit to a restaurant as good as it can be. And there's nothing easy about waiting tables well.

halibut2209

"a waiter or waitress on 45 hours plus tips is probably earning more than most of the managers, and that can't be right."

I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that.

Guifre

To clarify, my point is not that the waiter/waitress earns too much, but that restaurant management, in my experience, work excessive hours for a poor to mediocre salary. They have a fair amount of responsibility (e.g. staff and customers' welfare) and as a rule are held accountable for everything affecting the business, whether fully under their control or not. Some companies balance this accountability with good support and HR practices for their unit management teams, while others do not.

If it pays to demote yourself to a 45 hour waiting job, then surely something is wrong somewhere?

Jew

pjbltd wrote: »

Hi forum,

I was out for dinner with some friends.
One of my friends noticed a small piece of wire brush in one of the dishes (very small piece, the kind from wire brushes used to clean kitchenware).

I refused to pay for any of the food and just pay for drinks.
They agreed to this although the manager of the restaurant said I was abusing the situation and they had gone to a lot of hard work to make the meal.

I'm curious - what would others have done in this situation?
Was I in my rights or was I pushing it too much for my own gain?
They had offered to swap the dish but my friends had lost their appetite after the discovery.

Like to know your thoughts,

Cheers,
pjbltd

I do not think he abused the situation at all. What's the problem? The restaurant should accept the consequences of their actions.

arcon5

Jew wrote: »

I do not think he abused the situation at all. What's the problem? The restaurant should accept the consequences of their actions.

lol okay..