How to ask for optional service charge 12.5% to be taken off?

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  • Idiophreak
    Idiophreak Posts: 12,024 Forumite
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    Jew wrote: »
    The only consequences I accept are that someone misinterpreted what I wrote.

    That's all I was expecting you to accept.

    I appreciate your reasoning, but was just pointing out that, whatever your reasons, as long as you do it people will interpret your posts as aggressive. If you're happy with that, then fine.

    Was just trying to help.
  • lazer
    lazer Posts: 3,402 Forumite
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    Guifre wrote: »
    Hi Lazer (again)

    My apologies - it appears that my reasons for not declaring tips are wrong, but the fact that I don't declare them is correct - estimates are made based on the industry and that is what you pay tax on, based on tax code.

    Individually companies can agree modifications to this system, such as one chain I worked for where all credit card tips are taxed at full rate, and cash is left undeclared.

    Clear as mud, I'm sure you will agree.

    If the tips are collected by the employer and then divided up among staff, then tax an NI is due on them.
    If the tips are collected by one person out of the staff, tax is due on them.
    If tips are collected by each individual, tax is due on them.

    If you receive tips greater than that estimated by HMRC (the adjsutment to your tax code), they should still be declared.

    The industry average is just that - and industry average, and is used for ease of use, and so that the tips are taxed to some extent, as they were previously not declared by most people (although were still taxable - and should always have been declared).

    Individual companies cannot agree changes to the legislation on tipping. Credit card tips are taxed at the full rate as they are given out and distributed by the enployed.. The cash tips should be declared by the individual.
    Weight loss challenge, lose 15lb in 6 weeks before Christmas.
  • Jew
    Jew Posts: 276 Forumite
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    Idiophreak wrote: »
    That's all I was expecting you to accept.

    I appreciate your reasoning, but was just pointing out that, whatever your reasons, as long as you do it people will interpret your posts as aggressive. If you're happy with that, then fine.

    Was just trying to help.

    Appreciated, thanks.

    Though I'm not convinced that people will interpret them as aggressive. Even applies you, for example, maybe you wouldn't have thought so before Guifre said it. (Hence why we use double-blind and blind studies in science; or that the judge/jury isn't allowed to look at media information about the trial — not to influence.)

    I've never had a problem with this before to be honest. I really think that what sounded aggressive here is my disclaimer at the beginning questioning whether Guifre is genuine. That set the bad tone, perhaps. But it had to be said IMHO. Forums can be useful, but only when it there aren't red flags.
  • Idiophreak
    Idiophreak Posts: 12,024 Forumite
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    Jew wrote: »
    Appreciated, thanks.

    Though I'm not convinced that people will interpret them as aggressive. Even applies you, for example, maybe you wouldn't have thought so before Guifre said it.

    I did think so before Guifre said it - and a lot of people will have thought the same.

    Don't get me wrong, I multiquote and add emphasis sometimes, as much as anyone else...But I appreciate that when I do so people view it as being argumentative and aggressive.

    It's saying "everything you've said is so utterly *wrong*, that I, the amazing *right* person am going to break it down, line by line, and tell you just how wrong you are". Of course, a lot of the time, this being the Internets, it's great fun and you feel fabulously superior doing it....but you have to do deliberately. If you don't want to be seen as being aggressive, you should quote only one or two of the most objectionable sections and respond on those in a fuller fashion...
  • emerdie
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    This is actually my first post as I am a new member and this is the first thread I've read this morning.

    My personal opinion is that I disagree with the optional service charge being added to a bill. I don't disagree with tipping but I think that it should be my choice and I will leave a cash tip for my waiter/waitress.

    I was recently at a Mexican restaurant and we were a fairly large group on a table. They didn't add the service charge onto the bill but when you paid your part on your card, the machine gave you the option of tipping via the machine itself. I asked the waitress if I tipped in this way, what will happen to the money, i.e. would she get any of it. She said that she does get some of it but that a proportion of the staff's tips go into a pot (this restaurant was part of a chain) with all of the other restaurants (this was not an option for the waiting staff) then the money in that pot was used to take some of the staff on holiday (to Mexico). While this is a great idea and I said it was nice that she would get a free holiday, she pointed out that only a small proportion of the staff would get to go as there wasn't enough money for everyone so they put names in a hat. This means that if her name didn't come up, she had basically paid money towards co-workers going on holiday and she got nothing. Also, she explained that it was her last night at the restaurant so anything we tipped via the card machine was unlikely to be given to her. We chose to leave a cash tip that we knew would go into her pocket and be 100% hers.

    I also used to be a waitress. It was just a normal local pub, not a fancy restaurant. We very rarely got tipped and I found the opposite to what someone has said on here - big tables were always the most likely to tip. There was one little old couple who came in every Friday teatime and had the same deal every week. I would take their drinks to their table for them (I struck up a good relationship with them as it was my regular shift) and each Friday, the old man would give me a £1 tip. They were so sweet and it made you go the extra mile for them each week (not for the money).
  • Jew
    Jew Posts: 276 Forumite
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    emerdie wrote: »
    This is actually my first post as I am a new member and this is the first thread I've read this morning.

    My personal opinion is that I disagree with the optional service charge being added to a bill. I don't disagree with tipping but I think that it should be my choice and I will leave a cash tip for my waiter/waitress.

    I was recently at a Mexican restaurant and we were a fairly large group on a table. They didn't add the service charge onto the bill but when you paid your part on your card, the machine gave you the option of tipping via the machine itself. I asked the waitress if I tipped in this way, what will happen to the money, i.e. would she get any of it. She said that she does get some of it but that a proportion of the staff's tips go into a pot (this restaurant was part of a chain) with all of the other restaurants (this was not an option for the waiting staff) then the money in that pot was used to take some of the staff on holiday (to Mexico). While this is a great idea and I said it was nice that she would get a free holiday, she pointed out that only a small proportion of the staff would get to go as there wasn't enough money for everyone so they put names in a hat. This means that if her name didn't come up, she had basically paid money towards co-workers going on holiday and she got nothing. Also, she explained that it was her last night at the restaurant so anything we tipped via the card machine was unlikely to be given to her. We chose to leave a cash tip that we knew would go into her pocket and be 100% hers.

    I also used to be a waitress. It was just a normal local pub, not a fancy restaurant. We very rarely got tipped and I found the opposite to what someone has said on here - big tables were always the most likely to tip. There was one little old couple who came in every Friday teatime and had the same deal every week. I would take their drinks to their table for them (I struck up a good relationship with them as it was my regular shift) and each Friday, the old man would give me a £1 tip. They were so sweet and it made you go the extra mile for them each week (not for the money).

    Thanks for your reply! :)

    Very interesting!
  • ibizafan_2
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    As someone who has worked part-time for a major restaurant chain for 26 years, I can confirm that we get to keep every penny of tips which are given to us, and this is common to most of the chains. Our company does not impose service charges on any size of table, and we do get all credit card tips paid into our wages and therefore taxed.
    Serving large tables is much harder than twos and fours for all the reasons already given. The sheer time taken to get all the food to the table and clear all courses, contributes to this as well as taking the order in the first place. I can only say that people do from time to time forget what they've ordered and claim the wrong meal which can cause all sorts of problems.

    To all those who never tip and just don't see why they should, even if they get brilliant service, then I advise you not to go in a restaurant regularly, because human nature being what it is, no-one will want to serve you. You won't realise this, of course, but believe me, this is what happens! Not many people would want to do the job just for minimum wage, and much as I enjoy doing it, (I must do after all these years) I only do it because of the tips. Some people do ask me whether I get to keep the credit card tips, and I'm pleased that they do ask, as undoubtedly some restaurants use them for extra profit.These do not tend to be the major pub/restaurant chains.
  • Jew
    Jew Posts: 276 Forumite
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    Another case of chiming in after only having no/few posts.

    How did you find this topic?
  • ibizafan_2
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    Is my opinion worth less because I have only recently been posting on MSE? At least I have personal experience of working in restaurants instead of ill-informed observations.
  • Loanranger
    Loanranger Posts: 2,439 Forumite
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    Jew wrote: »
    Another case of chiming in after only having no/few posts.

    How did you find this topic?

    What is your problem, exactly?
    This is an open forum where anyone, Joe Public, anyone, can join in.
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