Preparedness for when

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GreyQueen wrote: »

I don't consider myself to be a racist. I am incredulous when a British woman who left Pakistan as a babe-in-arms tells me in all seriousness that the only way her expatriate culture can accept that she (a divorcee) can live in her own paid-for-by-her-own-labour house is because her 12 y.o. son is considered her head of household, and thus legitimises her domestic set-up.

Or that my friend in Leicester, when she tries to engage female neighbours in casual conversation, is told in cringing whispers that they're 'not allowed' to talk to her. That she finds it farcical that a grown woman can be told by her husband who she may or may not speak with is presumably a part of the reason why these ladies are not to be allowed to engage with her; they might get ideas above their station.

Re that first incident - I am gobsmacked by that too. I cant help thinking that, in her position, I'd just think "Oh well...so I'll be rejected by some people in my own culture if I stand up for myself" and would proceed to do so - even if none of them ever spoke to me again. I'd think "So what - and I'll find some British friends for myself". Or does she fear they would actually punish her in some way if she did so?

The second incident - "not being allowed to talk to". I guess that probably stems from these repressive husbands not wanting their wives to pick up our ideas? Many years back I was friends with an Arabic woman that followed her husband here when he came to study in Britain. She had been subjected to an arranged marriage by her own family - so it was certainly a somewhat old-fashioned family. She was the one who made the initial effort to make friends with me and we duly were good friends whilst she lived here. I do wonder whether that husband of hers might have objected if he'd known just how freely we talked together (including my confirming to her that he was being unfaithful with British women whilst here - and had "tried it on" with me and been told where to get off):rotfl:

Karmacat

Thanks to all those who shared their own horrific experiences - I'm sorry you went through that.

GQ, thank you for writing what you wrote, and taking things to another level altogether - you're dead right, it's got to be faced.

RAS

It works both ways.

Do not assume that is nice being a man in a society which hold very traditional views about behaviour.

I recall a friend horrified because he could not get it up one night. OK, the situation was one where he would have been cheating on his long-time European girl friend although they both accepted that their relationship would not survive his return to his own country. Which may have explained his reluctance.

We discuss the horror he felt at the prospect of marriage under his country's social mores. It would be an arranged marriage, he would not see his bride until the wedding and in his own words "essentially I will be expected to rape her on the wedding night. They will display the sheets in the morning to prove it."

There was no chance of negotiating time for the couple to get to know one another, no chance of helping his bride learn to enjoy marriage; he was horrified by this suggestion as they would think he was a pervert. Male extended family members already thought he was very odd because he refused to join them when they bought services. So he avoided going back if at all possible.

It is difficult being in two places.

GreyQueen

Yeah, traditional cultures are often pretty brutal to all concerned, men and women alike. Women usually seem to get the worst of it, though.

People wanting to flee war zones is completely understandable. We'd want to do it ourselves. However, when your flight takes you from sub-Saharan Africa to Northern Europe, or from the Indian sub-continent to Middle Europe, you are crossing a lot of cultural lines.

Do people really understand what they're letting themselves in for, by heading for countries as far removed from their own as it's possible to get, unless you start considering the polar north? If they did, would they stop off at countries where they were already of the predominant religious group, rather than heading to those parts of the globe where they will be clearly identifiable as ethnic minorities and where there will be almost no common ground with the indigenous population, culturally?

And, when they try and settle, how will they cope with our differences, and how will they cope with the fact that their own children, those who spend the bits of their childhood they can remember here/ are born here, will inevitably be very different to themselves in culture?

nuatha

GreyQueen wrote: »

Do people really understand what they're letting themselves in for, by heading for countries as far removed from their own as it's possible to get, unless you start considering the polar north? If they did, would they stop off at countries where they were already of the predominant religious group, rather than heading to those parts of the globe where they will be clearly identifiable as ethnic minorities and where there will be almost no common ground with the indigenous population, culturally?

And, when they try and settle, how will they cope with our differences, and how will they cope with the fact that their own children, those who spend the bits of their childhood they can remember here/ are born here, will inevitably be very different to themselves in culture?

The streets of London are paved with gold. . .
At least some sections of the British media are saying that asylum seekers and refugees are guaranteed to get a furnished house, car and money to support the lifestyle they aspire to. Actually the media is complaining that that's what they'll get in preference to Brits or armed forces personnel or whoever. Just because we know the media lie to sell newspapers, we can hardly be surprised that some people believe it (!!!!!! large sections of the British public apparently believe it and continue to support this propaganda by literally paying for it).

Just as a number of Brits expect everywhere abroad to be able to cater for British cultural mores (and food and language to boot) its hard to realise just how different another culture can be until you have experience of other cultures.

GreyQueen

I have some fascinating social and professional interactions with people from places like Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia. Middle Eastern men are as varied as men from any other part of the world and range, in my experience, from a delightful olde worlde courtesy to very stroppy misogyny. Such as demanding to talk to someone senior because I was just a woman, and finding every person in the hierarchy at the workplace was actually female.

There are plenty of things about my own culture I don't find particularly edifying, such as the ridiculous levels of public drunkeness. I don't think it's big or clever for a woman to walk around with a skirt barely covering her a**e and her t*ts out, be be vulgar. And vulgar it certainly is. And if I never see another butt-crack displayed in public in low-rise trousers, I would be a happy woman.

Several of my friends represent the first generation of their families to be born and brought up in the UK. They are thoroughly westernised and yet have to engage with the elders of expatriate communities from their families' original country, who are sometimes far more hidebound than their peers back in the old country.

It makes for pretty uncomfortable times, especially for those from the LGBT community whose lives can be endangered by the traditional values of the cultures their parents couldn't wait to leave.

You cannot move countries without experiencing a lot of discomfort, and you have to integrate with the country you are living in, or you run the very real risk that you will be isolated and vulnerable.

[Deleted User]

GreyQueen wrote: »

Hell, I might even get flamed for writing this..............

Not by me you won't.

Siebrie

Wednesday2000 wrote: »

I did a self defence course and it is usually good to remember groin, eyes, throat and knee as the vulnerable areas to go for if you are being attacked.

Just being aware of your environment is also a good idea, predators will go for an easy target and look for someone distracted talking on the phone etc... Trust your gut instinct if you feel uneasy.

My self defence instructor said that the best defence was not to need it, i.e. be aware! Also, that kicking in the groin was too difficult, because it takes too much force to actually make the attacker immobile. You are more likely to kick too softly and make him angrier. Go for other sensitive spots. And if you do attend a self defence course, try to get a sparring partner that will actually pretend to attack you, because you need to know how strong you need to be to get away.

Nargleblast

Greyqueen, you are spot on with everything you say about differences in cultural beliefs and behaviours. Our PM has announced today that money will be available to pay for Muslim women to have English lessons in order for them to integrate better. Whilst I fully agree that anyone settling in another country should be legally obliged to learn at least enough of the local language to get by ( and that applies just as much to British people settling overseas), what he doesn't seem to grasp is that some of these Muslim women are living in households which are firmly stuck in the seventh century in their beliefs and attitudes, and the men in those households will not "allow" their females to have English lessons.

The do-gooding, open-toed sandal brigade need to open their eyes and face up to reality. Multiculturalism can work well, but only when people from all the cultures mix with each other and treat each other with respect. When you get people from some cultures refusing to have anything to do with others, and creating their own ghetto areas, then multiculturalism has no chance.

GreyQueen

I'm very disappointed with the encouragement given to the formation or conversion of schools to religious-based educational institutions. I regard this as a foolish step storing up a lot of trouble for the future.

Children need to mix with people of all faiths and no faith. Schooling is about teaching facts, religion (all of 'em) is about superstition and custom. The twain should not meet in the same venue. And if children don't meet children of other backgrounds at school, and mix freely with them, when will they meet? At college? At the workplace?

Or will we have a multi-culturalism where people live cheek-by-jowl, not speaking each other's language, nor understanding or liking each other, simply because they have always been segregated by their culture, aided and abetted by ill-advised politicians?

It's such a shame that the brand of modern islam heavily-promoted by the Saudi state (and spread via their wealth via madrassas all over the world) is incredibly backward.

Islamic cultures used to leave the Christian west for dust, in terms of science, technology, you name it. Every time you write an number, understand that it's ARABIC numerals. Of course, the Chinese left all of us for dust, they were so advanced millennia ago that we've only recently caught up.:rotfl: