Preparedness for when

[Deleted User]

I don't know if it's legal but if I feel 'iffy' when I'm out on my own particularly at night I get my bunch of keys in my hand and poke the pointy ends of the keys out through my fingers and hold tight to the key ring in my palm, I could do quite a lot of damage to anyone who tried to molest me in any way before they realised I had a 'weapon' and was ready to use it. I don't know if keys would be seen as 'carrying a weapon' and I might hurt my hand in using them as such but it might give me enough time to extricate myself from a dangerous situation if I had to.

GreyQueen

culpepper, I have had exactly the same experience with screaming kids; gone charging over convinced that murder is being done and finding small children playing quite safely whilst shrieking like banshees.

dreaming, I'm sorry you had that horrible experience, just as I am sorry for those young lassies over in Germany and other places. It must have been absolutely terrifying and no one should have to go through that. Disgusting that other women's sons and brothers see fit to conspire to harrass and terrify girls and women and hide behind safety in numbers.

Occasionally, though, they get their come-uppance when a sting is set up with a female police officer with colleagues hiding in waiting to leap out at the prepetrator when he strikes. Those stories make me grin fiercely and punch the air.

It is going to be very difficult to integrate youths and men who have grown up in acutely misogynistic gender-segregated societies with what is the norm in the West. Imagine you've lived all your life somewhere where respectable women do not leave the family home at all, or do so very seldom, and only then closely-chaperoned by male relatives and wearing the equivalent of two bedsheets' worth of concealing fabric.

And now you are somewhere where respectable girls and women walk around in clothes where you can see their figures, with their heads uncovered, without chaperones, seeing fit to talk to men to whom they are not related, to show affection in public etc. Oh, and your culture probably thinks that Western women are little better than prostitutes, and you may well have already been exposed to pornography and further corrupted.

It's a helluva culture clash. I know women who have been left so disturbed by the constant sexual harrassment in places like India, Pakistan and the Middle East that they've vowed never return. And it's as often mature, experienced travellers in their forties and above as it is inexperienced younger women who are sometimes dressing and behaving in ways very contrary to the values of the cultures they are visiting.

We really don't want to think about this, because the narrative of the liberal west is that non-westerners are somehow more authentic and deserving of respect than westerners. And if they do things which have been unacceptable to us for a century or more (sometimes much much more) and which we have laws and customs designed to prevent and punish, we are somehow not entitled to condemn it. Or we feel uncomfortable and somehow guilty of being racist. Hell, I might even get flamed for writing this..............

Unfortunately, this liberal angst ill-serves the most vulnerable in our societies, such as the diabolical media conspiracy in Sweden to hide the mass sexual assaults of young girls by immigrants at a festival last summer, a substantial amount of which was assaults on girls under 15 years old. A culture sacrificing the best interests of its own children to protect the reputation of the outsider group, police and media shutting down because it's too squirm-inducing to contemplate.

It needs a firm hand and a cool head to spell out to people arriving in a western country what are the standards and mores of that country. Even if that is as basic as having classes on how to behave and what is considered unacceptable. And that there will severe punishments of those convicted of vile behaviours up to, and including, immediate expulsion from the country and a return to whence they came.

If hard subjects like this are not faced, and reasoned efforts made to shape these soon-to-be New Europeans into people who can live safely and harmoniously with the rest of us, the consequences are potentially dire. The Far Right will gain power and influence and everyone with a different complexion, surname, religion or style of apparel will become tarred by the same brush as the despicable minority who perpetrate these crimes.

RAS

Please avoid quoting; I may remove later.

nuatha wrote: »

If you're in that sort of situation, get your back to a wall.
Personal experience, if you go down, no matter how well you curl up in a ball to protect your face, stomach and groin, the targets tend to be your head, kidneys and ankles - I can type this because someone called the police and they responded quickly.

Having been in a similar situation, I would recommend getting up if you can; but my feet were higher than my head at the time and buggins had his full weight on his hands, covering my mouth and pressing my pelvis to the floor.

I decided to scream (I knew about fire but that is a bit of an ask in the situation). I ended up with a tingling sensation down one arm for the next week and bruises on both sides of my head because I turned my head so far to achieve the airway needed to do this effectively.

I then used the one free hand to get hold of anything I could and twist (three times).

Fortunately people heard and came out and started searching for the source of the noise. He ran off.

I will not forget the person living nearby who commented the next day that her neighbour told her it was a domestic so she went back indoors. I think the look I gave her said more than words.

moneyistooshorttomention

GreyQueen wrote: »

It is going to be very difficult to integrate youths and men who have grown up in acutely misogynistic gender-segregated societies with what is the norm in the West. Imagine you've lived all your life somewhere where respectable women do not leave the family home at all, or do so very seldom, and only then closely-chaperoned by male relatives and wearing the equivalent of two bedsheets' worth of concealing fabric.

And now you are somewhere where respectable girls and women walk around in clothes where you can see their figures, with their heads uncovered, without chaperones, seeing fit to talk to men to whom they are not related, to show affection in public etc. Oh, and your culture probably thinks that Western women are little better than prostitutes, and you may well have already been exposed to pornography and further corrupted.

It's a helluva culture clash. I know women who have been left so disturbed by the constant sexual harrassment in places like India, Pakistan and the Middle East that they've vowed never return. And it's as often mature, experienced travellers in their forties and above as it is inexperienced younger women who are sometimes dressing and behaving in ways very contrary to the values of the cultures they are visiting.

We really don't want to think about this, because the narrative of the liberal west is that non-westerners are somehow more authentic and deserving of respect than westerners. And if they do things which have been unacceptable to us for a century or more (sometimes much much more) and which we have laws and customs designed to prevent and punish, we are somehow not entitled to condemn it. Or we feel uncomfortable and somehow guilty of being racist. Hell, I might even get flamed for writing this..............

Unfortunately, this liberal angst ill-serves the most vulnerable in our societies, such as the diabolical media conspiracy in Sweden to hide the mass sexual assaults of young girls by immigrants at a festival last summer, a substantial amount of which was assaults on girls under 15 years old. A culture sacrificing the best interests of its own children to protect the reputation of the outsider group, police and media shutting down because it's too squirm-inducing to contemplate.

It needs a firm hand and a cool head to spell out to people arriving in a western country what are the standards and mores of that country. Even if that is as basic as having classes on how to behave and what is considered unacceptable. And that there will severe punishments of those convicted of vile behaviours up to, and including, immediate expulsion from the country and a return to whence they came.

If hard subjects like this are not faced, and reasoned efforts made to shape these soon-to-be New Europeans into people who can live safely and harmoniously with the rest of us, the consequences are potentially dire. The Far Right will gain power and influence and everyone with a different complexion, surname, religion or style of apparel will become tarred by the same brush as the despicable minority who perpetrate these crimes.

I certainly wouldn't flame you for writing this. I could have written every word of it myself.:T

They have GOT to be given the message that "You are in OUR country now. Learn what that means and respect it - or else. You may not like the fact that women are treated as people here and with total equality to men - but that's the way it is. Now - get over it mate. Its our way. You want to be here - then that's the price you pay".

I can well believe what you say re the way women (even Western women like ourselves) sometimes get treated in these countries. I would really like to holiday in a couple of Middle Eastern countries - but I just take it that I am prevented (by my sex) from going there and don't. I just have to make do with what aspects of the culture I like and can get here (ie the food/music/furniture/etc). I don't expect to see the worst aspects of their culture turn up in my country. I am in age group where I just don't get this whole idea of "multiculturalism". Its OUR culture...end of ...and we will take the bits we like (eg food, music, etc) and add them as a "bolt on" to our own culture and leave the rest (ie sexist attitudes etc).

nuatha

[Post edited to remove some personal data.]

GQ it may be a tough situation to face, but its one that needs facing otherwise you are right about the consequences.

It would be very difficult for anyone to make a case that a bunch of keys was an offensive weapon, no matter how they are in your hand and they do make a very effective "knuckle duster."

Frugalsod

This movie might appeal to preppers even if most of us have no likelihood of ever encountering a bear and it is even fact checked by Ray Mears.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2016/jan/18/fact-checking-the-revenant-leonardo-dicaprio-ray-mears

I am planning some camping trips to the US and Canada over the next few years so am looking into how to avoid bears. One thing I have learned is that some bears do not stop attacking if you play dead and you have only one option and that is stand your ground and make yourself bigger. Though I need to make sure is how to tell the difference and what to do for each species. Though fortunately if you are noisy they will avoid you and there are fewer risks of startling them. So a bell on the ankle like a cat bell to protect wildlife is a good solution.

GreyQueen

Some of my friends (respectable 40 + matrons of conservative attire and demeanor) fulfilled an ambition of a life-time to visit Egypt, and were left with a very negative impression. Due to constant sexual harrassment. It was so bad they vowed they'd never return, although there was much of interest they still wanted to see. These are well-travelled women of culture, not giddy young things going around without a clue.

Other professional women of my acquaintance are trying to watch over pupils who are in danger of having their gentitals hacked off and sewn up, or being shipped to the Old Country under false pretenses to see family where the intention is to marry them off to a man twice their age, at an age themselves well-below that of legal marriage in the UK.

We're having to write laws to prevent things which have either never been part of our culture, or which haven't been customary here in centuries, because other people are bringing alien customs into our country.

I don't consider myself to be a racist. I am incredulous when a British woman who left Pakistan as a babe-in-arms tells me in all seriousness that the only way her expatriate culture can accept that she (a divorcee) can live in her own paid-for-by-her-own-labour house is because her 12 y.o. son is considered her head of household, and thus legitimises her domestic set-up.

Or that my friend in Leicester, when she tries to engage female neighbours in casual conversation, is told in cringing whispers that they're 'not allowed' to talk to her. That she finds it farcical that a grown woman can be told by her husband who she may or may not speak with is presumably a part of the reason why these ladies are not to be allowed to engage with her; they might get ideas above their station.

daz278

With regard to GQ s integration problem TPTB are assessing the political consequences of political correctness in the light of grooming in rotheram and more recently the chief of police in Cologne..... crime needs to be investigated whoevers done it, including MPs

GreyQueen

I am livid about these sexual assaults, absolutely livid. I am furious that a minority of refugees are so incapable of keeping their hands (and other parts) to themselves that their conduct endangers not only their own well-being but that of other refugees, as well as the safety and prosperity of exisiting minority groups already settled in the countries where these assaults are being perpetrated.

There is nothing more primal, more absolutely hardwired into our species as unacceptable as sexual assaults on 'our' females by out-group males. These perpetrators couldn't have done a better job of inciting racial hatred if they sat down for a month and plotted it.

Imagine you are Frau and Herr S c h midt of Cologne, who consider yourself good liberals and pro asylum as a concept. And now young Miss S c h midt and her friends, still schoolgirls, have been assaulted in public by gangs of boys and men from the very groups whose rights you were championing. You are going to feel a tad differently now, when you have a shocked and distraught teenage daughter to comfort, as will her extended family and everyone who knows them.

VJsmum

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't flame you for writing this. I could have written every word of it myself.:T

They have GOT to be given the message that "You are in OUR country now. Learn what that means and respect it - or else. You may not like the fact that women are treated as people here and with total equality to men - but that's the way it is. Now - get over it mate. Its our way. You want to be here - then that's the price you pay".

I can well believe what you say re the way women (even Western women like ourselves) sometimes get treated in these countries. I would really like to holiday in a couple of Middle Eastern countries - but I just take it that I am prevented (by my sex) from going there and don't. I just have to make do with what aspects of the culture I like and can get here (ie the food/music/furniture/etc). I don't expect to see the worst aspects of their culture turn up in my country. I am in age group where I just don't get this whole idea of "multiculturalism". Its OUR culture...end of ...and we will take the bits we like (eg food, music, etc) and add them as a "bolt on" to our own culture and leave the rest (ie sexist attitudes etc).

Ok, finally something I can contribute to this extremely interesting conversation - and thread as a whole. Really massive thanks to all contributors.

I have been to Dubai a lot for work. Sometimes with others but mostly alone. I am 52 and have been going for about the last 7 years. Dubai is strange in that some parts are very westernised (shopping malls , posh hotel complexes for eg) and some areas are very traditional. I have always stayed in the more traditional areas. Even as a lady of more mature years I do get stared at and many "hello lady"s. BUT the laws in Dubai are strict and punishments are severe and, as such, it is one of the places I have felt most safe. Also it is forbidden to drink or be drunk in the streets and, for locals, to drink at all. I would be more worried about walking alone in my own town centre than I would around the hotel I use in Dubai.

You do have to be sensible, I don't wear shorts in public for example but I would wear a sleeveless blouse. I tend to dress quite conservatively in any case and carry a scarf to cover up if I felt it necessary - though I don't recall ever having to. I once happened upon an outside prayer ceremony (one of the most beautifully balletic things I have witnessed in the brief time I saw it - about one minute, if that), but I turned away and tried not to gawp. however, I expect Dubai is a Middle East exception.

Additionally, I teach students from many cultures - but at least half are Muslim, I would say. As a female lecturer, I haven't had any more bother from other races than I have from white British and there are as many Muslim girls as white British - and this is in the construction industry. However, I don't take much nonsense - and they know it - but I don't hear colleagues commenting either.

I did once reprimand a black guy for using the N word against a white guy :eek: he came and apologised to me after and we then got on well, despite his criminal record :rotfl: