Preparedness for when

[Deleted User]

GQ I've just read a very sensible WHO article on how Ebola is spread and it says that you have to have personal contact with bodily fluids for it to be caught and that is blood, saliva, stools, urine, semen,etc. The incubation period for the disease can be from 2 to 21 days and the carrier is infectious from the onset of symptoms. It is most readily spread by the practise of touching the skin of the corpse as a sign of respect, but is transmissable from touching clothing/bedding/surfaces/dressings etc. contaminated by the body fluids of the patient too. They say that inadequate protective clothing in some of the african countries for health workers dealing with the outbreak is a contributory factor in the numbers of people contracting the virus. I will speak to DD and see if she has any other information she can share.

There is a very factual sensible article inside todays Telegraph that explains the virus is not typical as in football shaped and spiky but is like a long thin strand of cotton and very easily destroyed by vigorous and thorough hand washing. They are teaching people in the african countries affected by the outbreak how to wash thier hands properly and they are being sent to thier home towns and villages to spread the technique and as a result of just this action the infection rates are falling. It's a simple thing that we do as a matter of course many times during the day so if we're careful we should be able to stay safe and healthy.

RAS

My understanding with ebola so far is that most transmission has been to family nursing those who are sick but not diagnosed or even quarentined or to people who have been performing customary rights for the dead which will involve contact with dead body. In many countries family and extended family will wash and prepare the body prior to the funeral and mourners will expect to touch the body. Then the extended family transport the infection back to their own community.

Sadly doctors and nurses are more at than the general population as a result of the need for physical contact with the sick. The doctor who died in Uganda a few years ago did not have time to put on googles when trying to prevent a patient escaping and the patient was spitting.

Unruly relatives trying to remove patients or suspected patients probably put hospital staff at as much risk as themselves.

It is worth noting that some people do survive and the earlier they are treated the better.

A very unpleasant disease but in the early stages someone infected could move round in normal day to day life without being a major risk to people with whom they do not have physical contact; it is when they develop fever (sweat) and start vomitting that things get scary.

The mortality stats from cholera used to be as bad and it is very easy for cholera to be spread. This should actually be easier to control.

2tonsils

I am worried that it will spread easily from country to country as well, via flights and airports. I have also been thinking about airport and country lock downs, not because of Ebola but serious natural weather events. The flights and ferries are often cut off here in the winter (there are no direct flights anyway, we have to go via Athens or Thessalonika.....) and I think this winter will be worse for it. Hence I am trying to anticipate long periods with no fuel or imported food deliveries.

GreyQueen

2tonsils, I've never been to Corfu but have been thrice to Crete, which is the largest of the Greek islands. How does Corfu stack up in terms of food imports vs the needs of the resident (i.e. non-tourist) population?

Is there any degree of self-sufficiency in terms of veggies, fruits and animal products, or is there a very high dependence on imported foods? What about fish caught locally, is there much? I know there are some place which would be stuffed without imports such as Eos (not sure of the spelling). Knew a girl who worked the tourist season there years ago and they didn't even have potable water on the island then.

I'd be very interested to know how islands would stack up if there were no imports.

RAS

2tonsils wrote: »

I am worried that it will spread easily from country to country as well, via flights and airports.

Senegal has already closed the relevant border, Liberia is closing border crossings and Nigeria has suspended flights from the countries concerned.

And action is being taken to prevent people with symptons from boarding flights. Given that the areas of infection are mainly rural ones far away from the capital cities, few people will actually be in a position to use air travel.

Liberia is also starting to quarentine communities where there is already infection as they seem to have realised that current voluntary measures are not effective.

The big problems they do face is communicating effectively with people who do not have electricity, clean water and 21st century communications.

2tonsils

GreyQueen wrote: »

2tonsils, I've never been to Corfu but have been thrice to Crete, which is the largest of the Greek islands. How does Corfu stack up in terms of food imports vs the needs of the resident (i.e. non-tourist) population?

Is there any degree of self-sufficiency in terms of veggies, fruits and animal products, or is there a very high dependence on imported foods? What about fish caught locally, is there much? I know there are some place which would be stuffed without imports such as Eos (not sure of the spelling). Knew a girl who worked the tourist season there years ago and they didn't even have potable water on the island then.

I'd be very interested to know how islands would stack up if there were no imports.

Corfu is a small island with millions of olive trees. It is around 40 miles long and 25 miles wide. Most of the animals here are sheep and goats as there is not a lot of pasture land. There are many co operatives for the villages and they grow and sell fruit and vegetables. The biggest problem will be fuel, which is all imported of course, via the mainland and Europe. There is no natural gas on Corfu and if we use gas cookers we use Calor canisters. Milk from sheep and goats would be available but not from cows. Cheese and yogurt likewise although stocks would be limited. Olive oil is stored and produced here and olives so they would be plentiful. Most families keep chickens so I guess free range eggs and chicken would still be available.

The island is the greenest in Greece and there are endless springs which flow all year...we rarely have shortages of water here and the village I live in has two huge underground springs of pure water which flows all year. We get enormous amounts of rain in the winter and have a huge tank (28 cubic meters) of filtered rain water under the house. We use it for washing and cleaning but it would need to be treated to drink it. I live straight over the road from the spring, which is tested for purity several times a week.

The fish available varies according to the time of year and the weather....sardines are cheap and plentiful but other fish is expensive even on the market. Luckily I love sardines! I have a gas hob and a small electric table top oven and grill, but I have been thinking of buying a cheap two ring gas burner in case we had to move upstairs away from flooding. I think it is a possibility as two years ago the water was so heavy that it came through the walls and up through the floor and ran through the lounge like a stream.....missing all the furniture and flowing smoothly over the tiled floor.....

We have adapted to the Greek diet so would be happy with local veg and fruit and some of the dried beans I always keep in stock. I have a good range of herbs for medicinal use and flavouring. I am thinking of moving some of the dried and canned foods upstairs as I have it all in the kitchen at the moment. The kitchen is about a foot higher than the living room and did not get flooded.

The storms are still North of us and I hope they will miss us completely as they look horrendous on the lightning map. If they hit it will be during the early hours of the morning. The sky is a very strange colour....

[Deleted User]

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

"there has been a major event and the whole of the UK as we know it is wiped out, with only £1200 design a new civilisation for your group of survivors."

Did any of them respond:-

"In an EOTUKAWKI type situation, money will be worthless."

[Deleted User]

lobbyludd wrote: »

Being 11 we all earnestly decided that the very first thing we'd do is bury the dead in the permafrost - to keep them fresh for eating.

Evidently, none of your parents took any notice of age ratings on movies.

[Deleted User]

You'll be buying a lot at one go, but you can get it on Ebay, for £2-57 per litre.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BIOETHANOL-Liquid-FUEL-24-X-1L-Bottles-97-Pure-Free-Delivery-UK-IRL-Bio-ethanol/121324501858?_trksid=p2054897.c100204.m3164&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140407115239%26meid%3D8685964683779688220%26pid%3D100204%26prg%3D20140407115239%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D20%26sd%3D231189702531

GreyQueen

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

Evidently, none of your parents took any notice of age ratings on movies.

C'mon Bob, I'm childless too and even I know teens watch what they want, regardless of the determination of their dutiful parents.

Yeah, amusing about the idea of rebuilding civilisation with £1,200 worth of stuff. The only worth of stuff would be its intrinsic usefulness in a low tech world.

Thinking back to last Saturday at the bootsale I was browsing and performing the mental exercise of imagining everyone frozen in place and me free to help myself from the myriad items on display for my needs post SHTF. What would I want?

Firstly, the large but foldable 4 wheel fishing equipment trolley. V. useful whilst the tyres lasted. The cast iron frying pan and the milk churn. The metal watering can. The several candles. The oil lamp. The metal petrol cans. The camo netting. The sleeping bags and the army trews and jackets in sturdy olive green and camo. The maslin pan. Some potted herbs. The manual Singer sewing machine. Possibly paper and some novels for entertainment. The stainless steel pans. Some kilner jars. Blankets. A tent or two. Packs of batteries (for a while anyway). Hand tools for gardening.

What would be pointless? The DVDs, CDs, LPs and PS games. The Dinky toys. The soft toys and dolls. The cheesy 3D pix of celebrities. The petunias. The artificial flowers and the huge amount of decorative objects which serve no useful purpose even now. Make up. The power tools will be pointless as will the portable gas BBQ. The portable disco lights and speakers. Flimsy sandals and high heeled shoes. Junk jewellery from non-precious metals.

When I think about it, the ratio of useful to useless items is probably in the region of 1:20.

It's a diverting exercise to look around you home and see how many of your items would be pointless in a world devoid of electicity. Can you imagine several decades post apocalypse when two youngsters laugh at an oldster telling them that the apple storage cupboards in the shed were once essential household items which used to keep foods chilled and fresh or even completely frozen for months?