American airlines cancelled flight UPDATED

jpsartre

Why does weather related cancelations count as extraordinary circumstances? Because the key is whether or not the airline could reasonably have avoided them and you can't do much to avoid bad weather. I agree that the issue is slightly more murky when the cancelation isn't caused directly by the weather but by knock-off effects. Again, the key will be whether or not the lack of crew could have been reasonably avoided. I'm not familar with rulings that specify what can be reasonably expected as far as standby crews are concerned. My guess is that it would be considered unreasonable to expect to have standby crews ready at smaller airports but perhaps not unreasonable at major hubs.

richardw

Article 14 of EU Regulation EC 261/2004 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML says

"(14)....obligations on operating air carriers should be limited or excluded in cases where an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken."

Earlier

jpsartre wrote: »

..If the crew was missing because they were supposed to come in on a flight that was cancelled due to bad weather for instance....

The circumstances in this example, missing crew, are not extraordinary because they could have been avoided by taking reasonable measures such as operating an adequate standby crew system.

jpsartre

richardw wrote: »

The circumstances in this example, missing crew, are not extraordinary because they could have been avoided by taking reasonable measures such as operating an adequate standby crew system.

We don't know that standby crews weren't in place, they could have been used elsewhere.

jpsartre

Centipede100 wrote: »

...meteorological conditions incompatible with the operation of the flight concerned

can only mean your originally scheduled flight, not a prior flight undertaken by a particular aircraft.

I don't believe that's true. For instance, say the plane you were supposed to be on is canceled at another airport due to weather. Then I'm sure EU 261 wouldn't apply.

richardw

jpsartre wrote: »

.....For instance, say the plane you were supposed to be on is canceled at another airport due to weather....

What 'reasonable measures' would you expect the airline to take to avoid the cancellation of your flight?

jpsartre

There's not much they can do. If it's at a base airport, there might be another plane available. Otherwise they can try to reroute a replacement plane from somewhere else. It really depends on the exact circumstances as passengers may arrive quicker at their destination if they are simply rebooked for a later flight rather than waiting for another plane to arrive from somewhere else. It also requires that a crew is available and that they have enough hours left to fly.

gem75

jpsartre wrote: »

There's not much they can do. If it's at a base airport, there might be another plane available. Otherwise they can try to reroute a replacement plane from somewhere else. It really depends on the exact circumstances as passengers may arrive quicker at their destination if they are simply rebooked for a later flight rather than waiting for another plane to arrive from somewhere else. It also requires that a crew is available and that they have enough hours left to fly.

Yes, cancellation will have been due to lack of aircraft in place not crew as the flight out from Chicago was cancelled on Friday night according to flight stats

richardw

Last time I was at Chicago there were technical problems with the aircraft and AA decided to start rectifying the fault with our aircraft and also started preparing a spare aircraft in the hanger for our flight, 'reasonable measures' by AA to avoid a cancellation. There were also snow ploughs clearing the runway and we left after about 2.5 hours delay.

jpsartre

Centipede100 wrote: »

Although BA had spare aircraft and crew available they made no efforts to use those aircraft or crew to avoid the cancellation.

Of course, if the airline had other aircrafts available, then it's a different matter entirely. Then the reason for the cancelation is arguably not due to weather somewhere else but due to the airline chosing not use an alternative aircraft. As I said, I believe reasonable measures to avoid a cancelation would be to use a replacement aircraft, if available. These will usually not, however, be available (unless it can be called in from somewhere else), unless you are at a major hub or base airport for the airline in question.

richardw

jpsartre wrote: »

....use a replacement aircraft, if available. ....

Why 'if available'?

Shouldn't airlines have sophisticated back up aircraft contingency plans based on the probability that aircraft will occasionally be detained away from base? I'd call something like that a 'reasonable measure'.

BTW Recitals of EU Regulation EC 261/2004 http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML

(3) While Council Regulation (EEC) No 295/91 of 4 February 1991 establishing common rules for a denied boarding compensation system in scheduled air transport(4) created basic protection for passengers, the number of passengers denied boarding against their will remains too high, as does that affected by cancellations without prior warning and that affected by long delays.

(4) The Community should therefore raise the standards of protection set by that Regulation both to strengthen the rights of passengers and to ensure that air carriers operate under harmonised conditions in a liberalised market.

give a bit of background.