BMA (British Medical Association) taking industrial action

horngkai

I just realised after posting the pension figure that most doctors will need to live up to 78 years old on the new scheme just to get their contributions back. So unless you live longer than 78 years old, might as well not pay into the pension.

smartn

horngkai wrote: »

I just realised after posting the pension figure that most doctors will need to live up to 78 years old on the new scheme just to get their contributions back. So unless you live longer than 78 years old, might as well not pay into the pension.

That's absolutely fair enough. I'm sure the figures for private sector pensions are even worse!

CLAPTON

The_J wrote: »

Most civil servants are a total waste of space so if I was going to have sympathy it would be for the doctors who are actually useful.

sympathy isn't required
if civil servants are a wast of space then the Coalition ought to abolish the jobs; it has no bearing on the salary or pension of doctors.

the_flying_pig

UK GPs* are stupidly, stupidly overpaid compared to any sensible benchmark [e.g. how much GPs earn in other countries, how much GPs used to earn in this country, how much is earned by people in comparable UK jobs {top university graduates, highly skilled but very modest management responsibility & favourable working hours - in the real world it's difficult to earn north of £100k without fairly exceptionally long working hours}].

But the idea of them working till 65 or 68 or whatever seems faintly stupid and offensive.

Most GPs basically signed up [i.e. entered the profession] expecting a combination of pay that was maybe 2-3 or so times the national average [a lot of money and quite right too, it's an exceptionally skilled job] & an outstandingly good pension.

At some point their pay absurdly ballooned to 4 or so times the national average. A sensible way to tackle this would be to freeze it in cash terms for 5-10 years. But changing the pension to now be merely 'OK' [relative to their ludicrous pay] seems less fair.


* - I focus on GPs because I feel I understand what they do pretty well and know what they're paid on average. I can't really claim either for hospital doctors, so they are exempt from this rant.

lostinrates

Wookster wrote: »

Now you're just being silly. You can always quit and take up a less stressful job.

So, things have changed since you signed up. Welcome to the world the rest of us live in.

Daadybear and other individuals can, and should if they feel so unhappy, take other jobs. BUT we still need gps. Thats the battle isn't it. If we have a shortage of GPs we need to consider not damaging the package, if we have plenty of people wanting to be GPs, then we do not.

I genuinely do not know what the answer to that is.

the_flying_pig

Continuing the rant, as a benchmark of sorts I give you government lawyers.

This bloke, who is the The Treasury Solicitor, the Head of the Government Legal Service, comprising a total of 1900 Government Lawyers and also... the Queen's Proctor... has got to the absolute top of his profession. There are 1900 professional lawyers [all of whom have been to good universities etc] under him & he earns £155k-£160k per year. He could no doubt earn vastly more in the private sector but chooses to work for the state.

There are hundreds of GPs, with perhaps a dozen or so doctors working under them freezing people's verrucas off & whatnot, who earn more than this guy. Something has gone wrong.

CLAPTON

lostinrates wrote: »

Daadybear and other individuals can, and should if they feel so unhappy, take other jobs. BUT we still need gps. Thats the battle isn't it. If we have a shortage of GPs we need to consider not damaging the package, if we have plenty of people wanting to be GPs, then we do not.

I genuinely do not know what the answer to that is.

there is in fact very little chance of GPs leaving the profession in any significant numbers for other employment as they are so well paid for what they do;

in virtually every profession / business except the medical profession, supply broadly matches demand (even if it takes a little time for this to happen)

for years and years the medical profession has maintained a cast iron grip on the numbers of new medics so they was a permanent shortgage even though there are plenty of people wanting to become medics

one must give some credit to the last government for expanding the medical schools but it takes a longish time for the effects to work through the system.

grizzly1911

horngkai wrote: »

. If one think they can go onto do more of a supportive/teaching role after 65 in the nhs, one must be deluded.... NHS wouldn't pay the doctor the same amount of salary for that.

Career Average would help at this end of the cycle then.

Wookster

lostinrates wrote: »

Daadybear and other individuals can, and should if they feel so unhappy, take other jobs. BUT we still need gps. Thats the battle isn't it. If we have a shortage of GPs we need to consider not damaging the package, if we have plenty of people wanting to be GPs, then we do not.

I genuinely do not know what the answer to that is.

I take real issue with his post that sounds somewhat like a toddler having a tantrum because they can't get what they want. Doctors (as a group) do incredibly well relative to EVERYONE else.

lostinrates

CLAPTON wrote: »

there is in fact very little chance of GPs leaving the profession in any significant numbers for other employment as they are so well paid for what they do;

in virtually every profession / business except the medical profession, supply broadly matches demand (even if it takes a little time for this to happen)

for years and years the medical profession has maintained a cast iron grip on the numbers of new medics so they was a permanent shortgage even though there are plenty of people wanting to become medics

one must give some credit to the last government for expanding the medical schools but it takes a longish time for the effects to work through the system.

I had forgotten how wide of the mark oblique points made here fall sometimes:)