BMA (British Medical Association) taking industrial action

nomoreboomandbust

Doctors deserve good pay/pensions, there is no denying that, but what annoys me is the fact that they are complaining that they will have to retire at 68.

They are not being forced to work until they reach 68, it just means that is the age they will receive their pension. Any Doctor who reaches the age of 60 should be very well off by then if they haven't frittered it away so they will probably be able to afford not to work for a few years.

chewmylegoff

nomoreboomandbust wrote: »

Doctors deserve good pay/pensions, there is no denying that, but what annoys me is the fact that they are complaining that they will have to retire at 68.

They are not being forced to work until they reach 68, it just means that is the age they will receive their pension. Any Doctor who reaches the age of 60 should be very well off by then if they haven't frittered it away so they will probably be able to afford not to work for a few years.

it's just the blinkered "my job is so hard i won't be able to work til then" approach ignoring the fact that anyone faces the same difficulties. i'm pretty sure that a large number of 68 year olds would find it quite difficult to sit behind a supermarket till for several hours at a time. hell, i expect that many would find it quite challenging to sit at a desk in the office typing rubbish on internet fora whilst pretending to work.

everyone can come up with an excuse as to why they shouldn't have to work past 65. the fact is that, as you say, it is quite unlikely that doctors will really have to work until they're 68. that's just the age they can claim their pension. i would be quite surprised if they didn't accumulate other investments that they could live off for a measly 3 years in between (and i expect a lot retire well before 65).

if they don't like it, GPs can always arrange for their own money purchase schemes instead of paying into the NHS scheme. i'm sure that if the proposed changes are such a bad deal we will see GPs leaving in droves to make their own arrangements....yeah right.

ILW

chewmylegoff wrote: »

it's just the blinkered "my job is so hard i won't be able to work til then" approach ignoring the fact that anyone faces the same difficulties. i'm pretty sure that a large number of 68 year olds would find it quite difficult to sit behind a supermarket till for several hours at a time. hell, i expect that many would find it quite challenging to sit at a desk in the office typing rubbish on internet fora whilst pretending to work.

everyone can come up with an excuse as to why they shouldn't have to work past 65. the fact is that, as you say, it is quite unlikely that doctors will really have to work until they're 68. that's just the age they can claim their pension. i would be quite surprised if they didn't accumulate other investments that they could live off for a measly 3 years in between (and i expect a lot retire well before 65).

if they don't like it, GPs can always arrange for their own money purchase schemes instead of paying into the NHS scheme. i'm sure that if the proposed changes are such a bad deal we will see GPs leaving in droves to make their own arrangements....yeah right.

Seems to be whenever that argument is put to public sector types, it all goes a bit quiet.

If the deal you are being offered is so bad, just take your business elsewhere like anybody else.

chewmylegoff

ILW wrote: »

Seems to be whenever that argument is put to public sector types, it all goes a bit quiet.

If the deal you are being offered is so bad, just take your business elsewhere like anybody else.

well, it doesn't really work most of the time because if you are an employee of the public sector, and you make your own arrangements, then you would lose the employer's contributions as public sector employers will not pay pension contributions into your own money purchase scheme as far as i am aware.

however, as has been pointed out to me, GPs have to pay both the employee's and employer's contributions out of the money they receive for their self employed work as a GP. therefore a GP could reasonably make alternative arrangements and not lose the employer's contribution as an employee would.

misskool

DaddyBear wrote: »

it's ignorance such as this, compounded by media bile, that means doctors never receive sympathy. On what planet is a GP a graduate? You have to be a doctor for AT LEAST five years, soon to rise to at least 7 years before becoming a GP. GP wages are not good for someone at least 5 years out of Uni.

much better than an average science phd graduate who has spent a commensurate amount of time

Andy_L

misskool wrote: »

much better than an average science phd graduate who has spent a commensurate amount of time

If you don't realise that phd's are poorly paid then you're to thick to become one

kabayiri

Let me see.

Doctors strike -> government concedes -> doctors pension deal remains.

That would be the ideal result I guess for the BMA.

How exactly does that fix anything? Does the government go find the lost revenue from some other deserving group ?

The whole pension debacle seems to be a case of beggar thy neighbour.

CLAPTON

Andy_L wrote: »

If you don't realise that phd's are poorly paid then you're to thick to become one

I think it's an interesting thought, that Stephen Hawkings, truely one of the greatest physicists of all time earned (before he wrote the brief histroy of time) less than the AVERAGE GP.

DaddyBear

kabayiri wrote: »

Let me see.

Doctors strike -> government concedes -> doctors pension deal remains.

That would be the ideal result I guess for the BMA.

How exactly does that fix anything? Does the government go find the lost revenue from some other deserving group ?

The whole pension debacle seems to be a case of beggar thy neighbour.

No, it means that other public sector pensions need to pay more, rather than relying on overpayment from doctors. As we've discussed above, at an 11% contribution rate paid over 40 years the contribution of doctors is in the region of £400k, which with matched employer contributions and investment should easily cover the £1.5m pot needed.
The government needs to be looking at police, civil servant and armed forces pensions if they're worried about sustainability. Because, in short, they aren't.

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

I think it's an interesting thought, that Stephen Hawkings, truely one of the greatest physists of all time earned (before he wrote the brief histroy of time) less than the AVERAGE GP.

Even pretend physicists, like Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory, earn far more than real physicists.