BMA (British Medical Association) taking industrial action

Andy_L

Andy_L wrote: »

The Dr's part of the NHS pension scheme has been average salary since, at least, 1995.

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Guide_-_online_%28V8%29_04.2012.pdf

page 3 refers

Andy_L wrote: »

Once again, our gripe is that we are being expected to swallow higher contributions than other public sector workers for the same package

You are, however you do not have the "same package" as "other public sector workers" You are comparing tangerines & oranges (not apples & oranges as they are both citrus/public sector & thus similiar but different)

DaddyBear

Andy_L wrote: »

The Dr's part of the NHS pension scheme has been average salary since, at least, 1995.

http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Guide_-_online_%28V8%29_04.2012.pdf

page 3 refers

Youre getting very confused. The 1995 section did not end in 1995, it started in 1995. It ended in 2007 to be replaced by the 2008 section - that was when the switch to average salary was made.

EM1

Andy_L wrote: »

I would agree with that, but that's not what you said



Total package is good & a lot better than most of them can/do earn once they leave



4-6 months every 2 years isn't that bad. When not on ops an awful lot are 9-5, early stack on a friday, weekends your own & 30 days leave.



So anybody who hasn't served is a coward?....



Military pension is about the 2nd/3rd best in ther public sector (Judges is better, police/fire, its debatable which is better). No direct contribution (and only 4% abatement), immediate pension if you serve to age 40, full service pension at 55.



There is only one civil service pension, do you mean public sector? Oh, I've had/have 3 differing public sector pensions. You are however correct that I'm not drawing any of them yet, unlike many millitary people of my age



I'll concede that one, I'd mis-read it & thought you said "all the while being in mortal danger"



Who said I was in the army? All 3 servcies (as well as the Civil Service & Police are out in theatre)



Oh, personal abuse: truly you are an internet hardman (although the 1st sentance is quite funny)

It's a bit harder than your comments make it. For families facing another tour they are likely to see the serving member for little of the six months before the tour. And then there is the psychological trauma. To know ones husband or wife or mother or father is going on tour doesn't begin or end with absolute tour dates.
The trauma begins as soon as one knows about an impending tour and finishes at an unknown date after, if ever.

It isn't your fault your don't understand the trauma. It would be impossible for you to do so.

Andy_L

DaddyBear wrote: »

Youre getting very confused. The 1995 section did not end in 1995, it started in 1995. It ended in 2007 to be replaced by the 2008 section - that was when the switch to average salary was made.

No confusion on my part, as per my link the 1995 section which, as you say, ran from 1995-2007-, was an average salary for Drs
(Apologies for the naff formating, its a PDF table)

"Practitioners...
1995 section
Pension: A pension based on 1.4% of uprated earnings per year
Retirement lump sum:3 x pension.
Normal retirement age: 60

2008 section
Pension: A pension based on 1.87% of uprated earnings per year
Normal retirement age: 65

There may have been provision for those who joined before 1995 to remain on an older scheme, which may have been final salary scheme but the scheme rules provide no info on any such reserved rights

DaddyBear

Andy_L wrote: »

No confusion on my part, as per my link the 1995 section which, as you say, ran from 1995-2007-, was an average salary for Drs
(Apologies for the naff formating, its a PDF table)

"Practitioners...
1995 section
Pension: A pension based on 1.4% of uprated earnings per year
Retirement lump sum:3 x pension.
Normal retirement age: 60

2008 section
Pension: A pension based on 1.87% of uprated earnings per year
Normal retirement age: 65

There may have been provision for those who joined before 1995 to remain on an older scheme, which may have been final salary scheme but the scheme rules provide no info on any such reserved rights

Nearly all doctors are NHS employees employed by NHS trust and are thus treated as NHS staff, not as practitioners (page 5).

Andy_L

DaddyBear wrote: »

Nearly all doctors are NHS employees employed by NHS trust and are thus treated as NHS staff, not as practitioners (page 5).

In which case would they not be on the 1/60ths final(ish) salary 2008 section rather than a career average scheme?

N1AK

DaddyBear wrote: »

I'm 6 years post graduation and my basic pay is £36k, so hardly any difference there between your payscale and doctors' payscale. I suppose you've got to give the government credit, with minimal propaganda they've created a society where everyone believes that all doctors eat caviar and drive sports cars. People need to stop fixating on the minority of GPs who earn big bucks. They are the exception and not the rule.

UK doctors are paid very competitively compared to other english speaking nations. Here is a canadian source from last year (plenty of others are available but this removes any internal UK bias):

Primary-care physicians include family doctors, pediatricians, internal-medicine specialists and obstetrician-gynecologists. Those in the U.S. earned an average after expenses in 2008 of $186,582, versus $125,000 in Canada, $159,000 in Britain and just $92,000 in Australia.

The new pension offered is still a very good pension.

I'm not saying that doctors don't work hard, or deserve good compensation. What I would say is that doctor's pay and benefits as they stand are excessively costly to provide. The fact that this can also be true of other public sector workers doesn't make it irrelevant.