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BMA (British Medical Association) taking industrial action
Comments
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Thankyou for revealing your agenda.
Our pension scheme was changed in 2008 which we also accepted without question. I'm not sure you'd be so gracious if the government wanted to change your pension again, making it significantly worse, again.
I'm 6 years post graduation and my basic pay is £36k, so hardly any difference there between your payscale and doctors' payscale. I suppose you've got to give the government credit, with minimal propaganda they've created a society where everyone believes that all doctors eat caviar and drive sports cars. People need to stop fixating on the minority of GPs who earn big bucks. They are the exception and not the rule.
the generally quoted GP average income is quoted at around 100,000
if you have acess to other figures why not share them with us?
and just for the record my gp surgery will only allow me to book an appointment on a rolling two day forward system; why would that be do you think?0 -
Thankyou for revealing your agenda.
Our pension scheme was changed in 2008 which we also accepted without question. I'm not sure you'd be so gracious if the government wanted to change your pension again, making it significantly worse, again.
I'm 6 years post graduation and my basic pay is £36k, so hardly any difference there between your payscale and doctors' payscale. I suppose you've got to give the government credit, with minimal propaganda they've created a society where everyone believes that all doctors eat caviar and drive sports cars. People need to stop fixating on the minority of GPs who earn big bucks. They are the exception and not the rule.
There's no agenda. Anyone who has looked at the schemes knows they are not going to be viable in the long-term.
I'm pretty certain my pension scheme is unviable in its' current state. I fully expect contributions to rise again (probably within the next 5 years) and they will slowly switch everyone to average salary (which works out better for researchers as we have been known to take jobs at lower payscales so we can keep going).
If you don't agree with the change, opt-out of the scheme and join another one if you think you can do better. That's what I would do if I was sure that my pension scheme was being changed for the worse.
Your pay rises are going to be exponential rather than incremental so I wouldn't worry about a bit more extra being put away for your future.0 -
and just for the record my gp surgery will only allow me to book an appointment on a rolling two day forward system; why would that be do you think?
Mine will provide appointments on th eday for "urgent" items including home visits. I am sure this would be amended, quite rightly so, though if abused."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
There's no agenda. Anyone who has looked at the schemes knows they are not going to be viable in the long-term.
I'm pretty certain my pension scheme is unviable in its' current state. I fully expect contributions to rise again (probably within the next 5 years) and they will slowly switch everyone to average salary (which works out better for researchers as we have been known to take jobs at lower payscales so we can keep going).
If you don't agree with the change, opt-out of the scheme and join another one if you think you can do better. That's what I would do if I was sure that my pension scheme was being changed for the worse.
Your pay rises are going to be exponential rather than incremental so I wouldn't worry about a bit more extra being put away for your future.
In 2008 we already agreed the switch to average salary, agreed higher contributions and agreed an increase in retirement age. Once again, our gripe is that we are being expected to swallow higher contributions than other public sector workers for the same package.
As for finding our own pensions, if these additional changes pass that is what will happen. Not because alternatives are better, but because we would no longer tied to the NHS. For hospital doctors the NHS pension is the last remaining benefit and the sole reason that most put up with the poor conditions and, relative to Consultants in other English speaking countries, poor pay. The option I'm looking at is to opt out of the pension scheme immediately and remain in the NHS for a few years after I become a consultant. Then, when my private practice is established, leave the NHS and work solely in the private sector. I'll get twice the pay for half the work without having to do anti-social hours.
We'll see a lot of hospital doctors leaving the NHS and the country completely.0 -
responsibility is another matter
is your responsibility more than
Ignoring wilful intent
-that of a pilot - usually have a co-pilot, electronic navigation and landing warning systems. Did have an old silver fox who flew us to the Channel Islands once though who did say don't worry about the emergency procedure, it will be too late.
-that of a train driver, definitely On or off, comply with standard signals.auto stop mechanisms perhaps? Do they have a dead mans handle these days?
-that of the people that organise the food supply to London - Definitely , so they go hungry for a few days , sure we can find lots of other sources
-that of people who organise a clean water supply
-than the people that organise a safe sewerage disposal service - For both of the above there are alternatives and unlikely to be life threatening in the short term
-that wire up the electricity of your house - Unlikely to die from a shock unless you are soaked in water
-that provide a safe gas supply
Not so sure about the the last one but you need more than just a gas leak on its own.
GPs possibly less so, although I know acouple of bright sparks, but for anaethatists and surgeons they are pretty responsible roles IMO
ANy one know how dentists fair in relation, bothe pay and pension?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
Knew one junior doctor, who held a HGV license who took up temp driving, if he had gaps in his training slots - it was 30 years ago though.That 20-50% overtime is not for every job so there's quite a few drs around on the basic salary. It's varies per job which can change as often as every 3 months.
Bet most of you don't have to suddenly take a forced 50% pay cut every few months."If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
grizzly1911 wrote: »Not so sure about the the last one but you need more than just a gas leak on its own.
GPs possibly less so, although I know acouple of bright sparks, but for anaethatists and surgeons they are pretty responsible roles IMO
I think the interesting aspect is whether we should pay some-one more because they make life and death decisions.
Now it makes obvious sense to train such a person well, to provide adequate support, to have backup systems available; but is a person less likely to make a mistake because they are paid more?
Personally I see no relationship between income and some-one exercising appropriate judgement in a potentially life and edeath situation.
If this were so then surely all soldiers should be 100,000s of pounds?
In practice we pay what the market will bear.0 -
And you disagree that most people leave the army before 40?
I would agree with that, but that's not what you saidPaid very little (bear in mind, I'm way better placed to answer this that you)
Total package is good & a lot better than most of them can/do earn once they leaveSpend large chunks of time away from family
4-6 months every 2 years isn't that bad. When not on ops an awful lot are 9-5, early stack on a friday, weekends your own & 30 days leave.Take orders from cowards (personal opinion, but I don't remember Tony Blair & co having a career in the military)
So anybody who hasn't served is a coward?....Pensions aren't that good (again, you have no experience of what other civil service pensions are like - I do - you sound like you aren't even drawing your pension yet )
Military pension is about the 2nd/3rd best in ther public sector (Judges is better, police/fire, its debatable which is better). No direct contribution (and only 4% abatement), immediate pension if you serve to age 40, full service pension at 55.(again, you have no experience of what other civil service pensions are like - I do - you sound like you aren't even drawing your pension yet )
There is only one civil service pension, do you mean public sector? Oh, I've had/have 3 differing public sector pensions. You are however correct that I'm not drawing any of them yet, unlike many millitary people of my ageBeing in mortal danger (400+ servicemen killed in Afghanistan, 100+ in Iraq - number of GPs killed by enemy combatants 0)
I'll concede that one, I'd mis-read it & thought you said "all the while being in mortal danger"If you are in the army, and I call BS
Who said I was in the army? All 3 servcies (as well as the Civil Service & Police are out in theatre)so !!!!ing far removed from reality you must be a Colonel. How can you be so stupid?
Oh, personal abuse: truly you are an internet hardman (although the 1st sentance is quite funny)0 -
On the pensions front we want to be paying the same percentage contributions as civil servants. These new proposals mean we pay double to spend all day dealing with various bodily fluids. All we ask for is fairness. Whether it seems gold plated to outsiders is irrelevant.
Thats fair enough, if you also have the same civil service pension. The Dr's part of the NHS pension is better than the CS one.
Theres a good argument that you should pay the same rate as lower paid NHS staff rather than having the tiered rates, but that is separete to the CS & NHS having differing T&Cs of employment0 -
In 2008 we already agreed the switch to average salary, .
The Dr's part of the NHS pension scheme has been average salary since, at least, 1995.
http://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/Documents/Pensions/SD_Guide_-_online_%28V8%29_04.2012.pdf
page 3 refers0
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