BMA (British Medical Association) taking industrial action

kabayiri

CLAPTON wrote: »

virtually every science / engineering student at a decent uni has 4 A/Ls at grade A so nothing exceptional here

if they want to progress an acedemic career thay do 4 years + 3/4 PhD (earning peanuts) a few years at post doc and end up at 30 without an actual permanent job


there is a huge queue to get into medicine as it's a worthwhile career and EXTEMELY well paid for the AVERAGE entrant.

starting salary at 23years is over 30k
virually a job for life
and guaranteed to earn over 100,000
and that for every doctor not just the best

of course SOME graduates do very well and far exceed those figures but there is NO other comparable graduate employment (except maybe dentists ) where the AVERAGE can even hope to achieve those salaries


loads of graduates pay for their own parking and have no guarenteed parking place

loads of graduates have to make their own pension provision

loads of graduates don't have company cars
loads of graduate don't have any benefits in kind at all
loads of graduates do loads of unpaid overtime


you really have no idea what life is like outside a fantasy vision of your own making

do tell us what a new gradaute (23 year old ) Dr earns
then what a 26 year old would typically earn
then what a 30 old would
and so

way more than the AVERAGE accoutant or the AVERAGE solicitor but maybe less than the average dentist

Maybe DaddyBear genuinely does believe this is the sort of comparable benchmark for similar professionals.

I'd say outside of London this level of package is rarely seen.

Even professionals in the City, who are well rewarded, burn out after a decade (perhaps 2) in the high pressure environment.

lostinrates

kabayiri wrote: »

Maybe DaddyBear genuinely does believe this is the sort of comparable benchmark for similar professionals.

I'd say outside of London this level of package is rarely seen.

Even professionals in the City, who are well rewarded, burn out after a decade (perhaps 2) in the high pressure environment.

Dh also made his bed and we lay in it.

Only two holidays in....six? Years not cancelled. Working on all holidays, blackberry on 24 /7 ( only time off is in flight) working in wildly disparate timezones, moved to other countries at drop of a hat, havoc with social life. Longer hours than a gp:D no notice for extra work...let alone a week! Company cars? Pfft, no season ticket loan either, but better remuneration than many who get that. The gut wrenching fea of the last few years where an eight year contract would have been a godsend.

I have to say, i would not want to be a gp. But a gp would not want to do what i have done either i imagine.:D

For us the pay off is a remuneration and for dh interest and challenge. But it is a personal choice. I do know both our close friends have said they think dh's work life balance is worse when it came down to it. One emmigrated opting for better work life balance, lower tax, lower income, the other is here still.

kabayiri

lostinrates wrote: »

Dh also made his bed and we lay in it.
...

I think that disclosure is for a different thread LIR

heathcote123

DaddyBear wrote: »

Ok, quick doctor's perspective.


Our gripes:
Blatant unfair treatment compared to other public sector workers.
We are being expected to swallow 2 massive changes in 4 years.
Why should doctors pay double the contributions of a civil servants for the same pension, we're clearly being used to subsidise other public sector pensions..

Blatant unfair treatment on the private sector that pay for it all.

Does anyone have a waaaaaaaamblulance picture?

lostinrates

kabayiri wrote: »

I think that disclosure is for a different thread LIR

On health and beauty they are sharing how they keep their foofies....so seemed quite tame in comparison.

DaddyBear

heathcote123 wrote: »

Blatant unfair treatment on the private sector that pay for it all.

Does anyone have a waaaaaaaamblulance picture?

So you think it's fair that doctor's pay 14.5% contributions, the civil service 8.5% and the armed forces fack all? I'm moaning about I equality..... Just like the private sector types bleat about pensions inequality.

funguy

DaddyBear wrote: »

So you think it's fair that doctor's pay 14.5% contributions, the civil service 8.5% and the armed forces fack all? I'm moaning about I equality..... Just like the private sector types bleat about pensions inequality.

Not to forget the GPs pay their own employers contribution of 14.5% as well - NOT paid by the NHS!

So, assuming the average pay is £100,000, then they would be paying 29% - £29,000 into their pension - thats a significantly larger amount than other professions!

heathcote123

DaddyBear wrote: »

So you think it's fair that doctor's pay 14.5% contributions, the civil service 8.5% and the armed forces fack all? I'm moaning about I equality..... Just like the private sector types bleat about pensions inequality.

Join the army then.

Thats what the rest of the population tend to do if they dont like the conditions, they change job, they dont hold the country to ransom.

Itismehonest

Retirement age was originally 70 when it was introduced in 1908. That was when life expectancy was around 50.
I think it was reduced to 65 around the 1920s but I'm not sure. Life expectancy (even by the 1940s) was only 64 for women & 59 for men.

It's a sad fact that we can't afford to continue to pay out vast amounts when life expectancy has now left the pension age far behind. People now have an expectation of living long enough to enjoy a retirement. For many years this was not the case.

chewmylegoff

DaddyBear wrote: »

I have no problem with getting a pension in the private sector as long as we get the other benefits that similarly ranking private sector professionals enjoy.
Free car parking, health insurance, performance-related bonuses, travel expenses, company cars, paid professional fees and exam fees....

The reason doctors are up in arms about pensions is that it's the straw that has broken the camel's back. There has been a sustained attack on doctors in recent years. Years of below inflation pay rises, loss of autonomy, loss of free accomodation for juniors, a disastrous and unwanted overhaul of the training system. Without pensions there are absolutely no incentives to being a doctor in this country. Just imagine the job advert.

Wanted, junior doctor
Requirements 3 A levels at A or better, 6-year medical degree.

Job description
You'll be part of an understaffed, highly stressed team and will have ultimate responsibility for patient care. You'll be expected to constantly work in unfamiliar surroundings with little support and perform any duties that allied health professional can't or won't do, even if you haven't done them before.
8 year rolling contract
At least 48 hours per week including nights, weekends and bank holidays (you'll be given about 1-week notice of your on-call shifts). Don't expect to finsh work on time.
You'll move hospitals every year and we'll give you no choice in the matter, you'll usually get 2-months notice when we move you.
Pay - we won't tell you until you start but we can guarantee that your basic salary will be less than a London tube driver for the duration of the contract.
Parking - £40 a month with no guarantee of a space.
Professional fees and exam fees - we will contribute nothing.
Other benefits - nil
Pension - sort your own out.

Anyone fancy it??

Yeah loads of people fancy it which is why medical degrees are extremely competitive.

The reason is that you might get shafted for the first few years but after that you've made it, and can rake in the cash with pretty solid job security. It's no differrent to any other profession in that regard, but the rewards for doctors after the "get shafted" period are better than most. Only the creme de la creme in law and accounting could hope to make more than £100kpa.