How to record an ESA medical

sniggings

KxMx wrote: »

I had my call to book the medical, and he knew all the dates I couldn't do which I listed on ESA50. Booked me in. Then I asked to make sure it would be recorded as per my request (letter stapled to front of ESA50 and written in the form) and he said he hadn't been informed of this.

He was fine about it, cancelled the appointment just made and sent off a request to another dept who deals with it and said they will be in touch. He couldn't have been nicer, even asked me if there were any more dates I couldn't do and let me add one on as i've various medical appointments next month and I didn't factor in recovery time for one I have to trek to London for.




We shall see how it turns out!

he could be genuine but in my experience they are until it comes to the report, they try and get you relexed etc but all the time looking for stuff to go against you, it sounds unbelievable but they are low life, even when they come to meet you in the waiting area and say "did you get here ok" that will be used, one told me that as I got there ok then no reason to be on the sick, so you either don't go and get your money stopped or do go and get told you must be fine as you are sitting there.

Just be on your guard.

Invalidation

Got to Ebay and look for 'Key Chain Camera' try for the #18 or #16 model. They record video and sound £25

KxMx

sniggings wrote: »

he could be genuine but in my experience they are until it comes to the report, they try and get you relexed etc but all the time looking for stuff to go against you, it sounds unbelievable but they are low life, even when they come to meet you in the waiting area and say "did you get here ok" that will be used, one told me that as I got there ok then no reason to be on the sick, so you either don't go and get your money stopped or do go and get told you must be fine as you are sitting there.

Just be on your guard.

Thanks for the tips, but I am being transferred from IB to ESA so I know the drill well, had medicals and appeals over the years.

rogerblack

Invalidation wrote: »

Got to Ebay and look for 'Key Chain Camera' try for the #18 or #16 model. They record video and sound £25

I would not generally suggest a camera.
It adds little over the voice typically, and is much harder to site covertly so it has a good view.
It can be very obvious if you are trying to work out which way to put your bag down!
My mobile was quite adequate to record the interview - it was left in a closed pocket recording from before I went into the interview.
Crystal clear.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Dear Sir/Ms,

Name:
National insurance number:

Re: having my assessment recorded

I wish to have my work capability face-to-face assessment recorded and I understand that this will be done by Atos using dual recording facilities and at no cost to me, as has repeatedly been stated by the minister of state for employment, Chris Grayling. If recording facilities are not available on the date of my assessment, I wish to have it postponed until they are.

Right to a recording
In a debate on the work capability assessment on 1 February 2012, Grayling told MPs that:

“On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded.” (Hansard citation: HC Deb, 1 February 2012, c291WH)
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201212/cmhansrd/cm120201/halltext/120201h0001.htm#12020157000270

On 17 July 2012, in reply to a written question by Frank Field MP, Grayling stated that:

“As part of this process we are also reviewing Atos capacity to provide recordings for those claimants who currently request one. Additional machines have been ordered. However a large scale purchase of machines in the absence of an evaluation of the process is not effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall work capability assessments.

“In the meantime, while Atos will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example where it has not be possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date.”
(Hansard citation: HC Deb, 17 July 2012, c783W)
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm120717/text/120717w0007.htm#1207187002668

If recording facilities are not available
If recording facilities are not available on the date of my face-to-face assessment, I wish, to be offered a later date rather than be obliged to attend an assessment which is not recorded, as the minister has said is my right.

I understand, however, that on a number of recent occasions Atos staff have claimed that following revised instructions from the DWP they will no longer cancel appointments if it transpires that recording equipment is not available, in spite of a proper request having been made.

Complaint to my MP
I wish to make it clear that, should you seek to oblige me to attend an assessment without recording facilities I will immediately make a formal complaint to my MP and ask them to urgently ask the minister whether the statement he made to MPs on 12 July was truthful and, if so, why it is not being followed by the DWP and Atos.
Right to written details of conditions
If you seek to oblige me to attend a face-to-face assessment at which recording facilities are not available I wish to be provided with copies of any instructions or guidance issued by the DWP to Atos as to when they are permitted to decline to meet a request for an assessment to be recorded.

In Upper Tribunal Case No. CIB/3117/2008, which concerned a claimant who refused to attend a medical unless he was permitted to record it, the upper tribunal judge held that:

“It has not been established that the appellant failed to show ‘good cause’ for failing to submit himself for a medical examination on 22 October 2007.”

The tribunal judge went on to instruct that:

“The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to arrange for the appellant to be provided with details, in writing, of the conditions under which an interview or examination may be tape-recorded;

“The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to offer the appellant a further appointment for a medical examination.”

Should these written details not be provided to me I will seek legal advice as to whether I may have good cause to refuse to attend a medical. I shall also seek advice on whether I have grounds to seek compensation should I suffer financial hardship or emotional distress as a result of failure by the DWP or Atos to follow their own proper procedures, legal rulings or ministerial undertakings.

Reasonable adjustments
In some instances, such as where a claimant has difficulties with concentration caused by physical pain, fatigue or a mental health condition, it may be a reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act 2010 for the claimant to have the assessment recorded because they will be unable to take notes or properly recall what was said at the assessment.

Should you refuse to allow me to have my medical recorded I will seek legal advice as to whether I can take action against Atos or the DWP for breach of the Equality Act. As a preliminary to that action I shall seek evidence of whether reasonable adjustments were considered in my case, such as inviting me to use my own recording device or postponing the assessment until a departmental device was available.

Appeal hearing
Should I be unhappy with the decision in relation to my capacity for work I will appeal the decision and ask the tribunal to make a finding as to whether the failure of the DWP and Atos to follow their own guidelines in relation to recording medicals should be taken into account when assessing the reliability of the Atos medical report.

This letter is sent without prejudice as to any other legal remedies I may seek if I am refused the opportunity to have my assessment recorded.

Yours faithfully,

KxMx

I stapled a similar letter to the front of my ESA50. Didn't stop them trying to wriggle out of it- the dates had been passed to the guy calling my appointment, but not the recording request, which was also on the same page as the dates on ESA50!

Le73Uq86Uv

Why not just ask them for a recorded WCA as it is your right to have it recorded.

Le73Uq86Uv

sniggings wrote: »

I would strongly recommend to record the meeting, atos were my last works health care providers, I was sent to one of their doctors who one an other occasion said she did not want to go against my own doctor as she was not experienced enough on my illness, my boss sent me back to her after he had a word with her, she had been told to changeher mind and said my boss wasn't happy so she was changing she report, I said I was amazed she would change the report because my boss said too,and I asked to make a phone call because of her changing the report because she was told to, she then stopped the interview as she said she felt I was going to attack her and that I was standing over her and shouting and she was about to press the panic button, this lead to me leaving work as my boss brought a case against me, luckly I recorded the whole interview but this didn't help much keeping my job as I was that stressed over this I left.

I played the tape to the union and he was amazed that the doctor could have claimed what she did but again this didn't help as he said a recording could not be used and I could have been sacked just for making the recording! I guess the only use is if she had claimed I hit her or worse as the tape clearly shows I was very reasonable.

I used a mp3 memo recorder (£60) not the best quality but good enough, a phone would just be as good, just make sure not to move about too much with your cloths as the mic does pick up this and it can sound real bad.

Good old atos I see are still at their old tricks, very sad people are willing to do this type of thing just for a wage.

You should report the Doctor to his/her professional body as this could be against thier professional conduct and could be struck off.

SailorSam

I'm registered with Benefits & Work (not as a paid member), who give advice about making claims for benefits. Yesterday i received an email which talks about trying to record interviews and recommends trying to watch 2 Tv progammes next week ...... Dispatches 8pm on Channel 4 'Undercover filming' and Panorama Bbc2 8.30 'Disabled or Faking'
The email is very long and takes a fair bit of reading, i've tried to copy it below.
Dear Bill,

A few weeks ago, when the DWP tried to stop claimants seeing a useful employment and support allowance (ESA) appeals video, Benefits and Work readers helped make it the most popular video the ministry of justice has ever produced and spread it across the internet.

Now, it seems, the DWP are trying to prevent claimants giving evidence about how fairly Atos and the DWP are treating them. This evidence is vital for millions of people because it will affect both ESA and disability living allowance (DLA) when it becomes personal independence payment (PIP). So, once again, we’re asking for your help to stop the DWP getting away with it.

In this edition we also ask who is lying about ending the right to have your ESA medical recorded?

We also tell you about the two page letter you can copy and paste to give yourself the best chance of getting your audio-tape.

Finally, there’s news of two upcoming TV investigations into the work capability assessment (WCA), one of which includes undercover filming of Atos.

MISSION ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE
Professor Harrington has made a call for evidence for his third review of the work capability assessment. He especially wants to hear from claimants about whether all the changes he has introduced mean that Atos and the DWP now deal with you more fairly and effectively.

Yet, astonishingly, there is nowhere for claimants to answer the questions he puts to you. Instead, the DWP have buried the questionnaire in a .pdf file which cannot be written to unless you own software costing hundreds of pounds.

The only way claimants can take part is either by printing off the document, and then writing the answers by hand and posting them to Harrington or by trying to copy, paste and reformat all the questions into another document to create their own questionnaire.

In addition, the call for evidence went out just before the summer holidays and ends on September 7th, just as schools go back. This means that it has attracted very little attention from charities and other organisations that might otherwise be encouraging claimants to get involved.

So, to help you take part, Benefits and Work has done two things.

We’ve created an online version of the questionnaire you can complete. Your answers will be emailed to you and you can then check them and forward them to Harrington’s team.

We’ve also created a text version of the questionnaire, so if you prefer you can type in that and then send your answers to Harrington.

Make no mistake, this review matters.

The DWP and Atos have faced ever growing criticism of the WCA, with even GPs calling en masse for it to be scrapped and two TV investigations of the WCA being broadcast next week. Their response has always been that they are putting into place all Harrington’s recommendations and that, as a result the WCA is greatly improved.

If you agree that it has got better it’s important that you show your support for the changes to silence the critics. If you think it hasn’t, then it’s equally important that you make it as hard as possible for Grayling and Iain Duncan Smith to use Harrington as a defence.

There’s a series of questions about issues such as whether telephone and written communications have improved, whether medical examinations are better and whether the WCA is now fair and effective. There’s also an ‘anything else’ box you can use to address issues like recording medicals and waiting times, for example.

Harrington particularly wants to hear from claimants who have had more than one WCA, but he does also want opinions on fairness and effectiveness from claimants who have only had one.

And because personal independence payment, which begins replacing DLA from April of next year, is assessed using a very similar system to the WCA, whatever advantages or failings there are in the WCA will almost certainly be reproduced for DLA to PIP transfers. Because of the dramatic effect that DLA/PIP in particular has on living standards, your evidence could literally change people’s lives.

So, if you’ve had a WCA, please complete the questionnaire. And if you can post details on forums you use, forward this newsletter to a friend and ask any charities you’re involved with to encourage members to take part as well, we can ensure that Harrington hears the truth.

TWO TV INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE WCA
Thanks to Benefits and Work member papasmurf for alerting us to two programmes about the WCA both being broadcast on Monday 30 July.

Dispatches. 8pm, Channel 4
“Using undercover filming, reporter Jackie Long investigates the shocking processes used to assess whether sickness and disability benefit claimants should be declared fit for work.”

Disabled or faking it? 8.30pm, BBC2
“Panorama investigates the government's plans to end the so-called 'sick note culture' and their attempts to get millions of people off disability benefits and into work. In Britain's modern welfare state, millions are being paid to private companies to assess sick and disabled claimants but is the system working? Or are new tests wrongly victimising those who deserve support the most?”

RECORDING MEDICALS
The fiasco over the recording of medicals has now even reached the pages of the Guardian (external link).

Aside from the lack of recording equipment, the biggest issue at the moment is whether you can have your WCA postponed if you’ve asked in advance for a recording, but the equipment isn’t available. Grayling keeps reassuring MPs that this is the case.

As recently as 17 July, in response to a written parliamentary question(external link) he stated that:

In the meantime, while Atos will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example where it has not be possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date.

On the other hand, Atos claimed in their company blog (external link) on 6 July that:

“We will make every effort to accommodate requests for this service and hope that we will be able to meet demand. However, under the terms of our contract with the Department, we cannot postpone an assessment on the basis of audio-recording.”

And we continue to hear from members who have been refused a recording and told they must still attend their medical.

We are taking steps to discover whether the DWP have indeed issued instructions to Atos not to postpone medicals.

Meanwhile we have produced a two page letter Benefits and Work members can copy and paste to ask for their medical to be recorded and warn of the possible consequences of this request being refused. It draws on parliamentary statements, the Equalities Act and an Upper Tribunal decision.

The letter is included in the latest editions of our guide to the WCA and is also downloadable in text format for easy copying and pasting in the ESA section of the members area.

OTHER NEWS
As always, there’s much more news in the members area than we have room for in this newsletter, including:

Decision makers still bow to Atos

sniggings

Le73Uq86Uv wrote: »

You should report the Doctor to his/her professional body as this could be against thier professional conduct and could be struck off.

Before leaving work and since leaving work I asked the union for help to do that, it also may be help other employees that get to meet this "lady" they said they would, but keep not getting back in contact with me and have now stopped answering my emails, I guess cos I don't work there now.

I was going to do it myself but I am worried that I may say the wrong thing as I will have to watch my wording incase I accuse her of something I can not support and not sure if I can mention the recording as the union have already said I shouldn't have recorded the meeting and I could get into trouble for it.