- thoughts - just - thoughts

Richie-from-the-Boro

UC [means-tested, conditionality based benefit] became law on the on 8th March 2012, but its the tip of an iceberg we can't yet see. The 12 million working age claimants, whether they are unemployed or in low-paid work will move into UC between October 2013 and October 2017. The whole mass of the iceberg called UC is still below the waterline and the mass of regulation is yet to be revealed but in a sentence its intended outcome is to make sure:

"""work will pay for the first time, ending the worklessness and the endless cycle of benefits"""

PIP will completely abolish DLA, and will replace disability living allowance (DLA) for working age adults. The 'required period condition' time frame for PIP is now [ a - 3 and a - 9] 12 months for both components

- 3 months where its likely that the disability conditions for a component would have been satisfied, and ;
- 9 months where its likely that those conditions will continue to be satisfied

Everyone should by now know the descriptors but the code for understanding them is:

- reliably’ means to a reasonable standard [ yes I know !]
-‘In a timely fashion’ means in less than twice the time taken by someone without an impairment
-‘Repeatedly’ means as many times during the day as the activity requires. Account should be taken of the cumulative effects of pain and fatigue
-'Safely’ means in a way that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual or anyone else

Many assumptions of the benefit rates have been posted but as yet no agreed rates of each of the components have been fixed, assessments and modelling in this are still continue. So whilst many worried people read the PIP stuff on this site, the PIP rates are still an intention rather than legislation.

Its far to early to worry - we don't know enough !

Anubis_2

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

UC [means-tested, conditionality based benefit] became law on the on 8th March 2012, but its the tip of an iceberg we can't yet see. The 12 million working age claimants, whether they are unemployed or in low-paid work will move into UC between October 2013 and October 2017. The whole mass of the iceberg called UC is still below the waterline and the mass of regulation is yet to be revealed but in a sentence its intended outcome is to make sure:

"""work will pay for the first time, ending the worklessness and the endless cycle of benefits"""

PIP will completely abolish DLA, and will replace disability living allowance (DLA) for working age adults. The 'required period condition' time frame for PIP is now [ a - 3 and a - 9] 12 months for both components

- 3 months where its likely that the disability conditions for a component would have been satisfied, and ;
- 9 months where its likely that those conditions will continue to be satisfied

Everyone should by now know the descriptors but the code for understanding them is:

- reliably’ means to a reasonable standard [ yes I know !]
-‘In a timely fashion’ means in less than twice the time taken by someone without an impairment
-‘Repeatedly’ means as many times during the day as the activity requires. Account should be taken of the cumulative effects of pain and fatigue
-'Safely’ means in a way that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual or anyone else

Many assumptions of the benefit rates have been posted but as yet no agreed rates of each of the components have been fixed, assessments and modelling in this are still continue. So whilst many worried people read the PIP stuff on this site, the PIP rates are still an intention rather than legislation.

Its far to early to worry - we don't know enough !

Thank you, Sir! I agree

kurgon

I have been and remain concerned about the mobility descriptors - as does the UK car industry

GlasweJen

As a working disabled person I think I might be better off on PIP. At a glance i score 15 for mobility and more than that for care and that's assuming I no longer need the wheelchair when I get moved over. I know some people are going to lose out but there are some people who have never worked and they are not so disabled that they can't, they've simply chosen to live off benefits and that has to stop.

easy

At last, some common sense postings about the proposed forthcoming changes.

When the changes were first being discussed in the press, there were so many threads on here weeping and wailing about what MIGHT happen. I tried a few times to post calming, reasonable thoughts, but was shouted down, so in the end I gave up and stopped reading the threads.

I know some people are going to lose out but there are some people who have never worked and they are not so disabled that they can't, they've simply chosen to live off benefits and that has to stop.

This is sooo right !!!

DLA was a good benefit at the time when it was put in place, but times have changed, the country's circumstances have changed, and (IMHO) the attitude of the general populace towards claiming benefits has changed.

It is time that the system was changed. Some may lose, some may gain - life is like that.

Richie-from-the-Boro

What we do know - the descriptors.

- there are two components of PIP, daily living / and / mobility
- both will be paid either at standard / or / enhanced rate
- the assessment will be points-based
- the points focus on activities which are fundamental to participation
- there are five groups representing the extra costs faced by disabled people

The accessing 5 groups are / food and drink / managing medical conditions and treatment / managing personal hygiene / communication / getting around, the 5 groups are broken down into 11 activities and each activity is awarded points. I said in another post that the scores being bandied around are not yet decided, but its clear that 'managing treatment and medication activities' will score low and 'communication and mobility component activities' will score high.

The daily living component
1. Planning and buying food and drink
2. Preparing and cooking food
3. Taking nutrition
4. Managing medication and monitoring health conditions
5. Managing prescribed therapies other than medication
6. Washing, bathing and grooming
7. Managing toilet needs or incontinence
8. Dressing and undressing
9. Communicating with others

The mobility component
1. Planning and following a journey
2. Moving around

NOTE :

The old 'cooking test' led to a decade of case law interpretations, clearly this new law seeks to head off the lawyers with very narrow definitions using ordinary words which are in everyday use.

Yesterday I posted the following interpretations, today I will add two more to the bottom of the list.

- reliably’ means to a reasonable standard [ yes I know !]
-‘In a timely fashion’ means in less than twice the time taken by someone without an impairment
-‘repeatedly’ means as many times during the day as the activity requires. Account should be taken of the cumulative effects of pain and fatigue
-'Safely’ means in a way that is unlikely to cause harm to the individual or anyone else
- 'intermittent' means for at least half the duration of the activity
- 'continual' means throughout the entire duration of the activity

My reason for collecting these definitions is that as far as I read it the claimant will be considered ~ able to ~ perform an activity unless - they evidence the fact that they ~ can not ~ complete it reliably / in a timely fashion / repeatedly / and safely / and where appropriate using suitable aids and appliances.

EDIT

---

Important EDIT for #6 Here the paragraph does not read clearly enough for the intended reader.

Old last para used to read

My reason for collecting these definitions is that as far as I read it the claimant will be considered unable to perform an activity unless - they can complete it reliably / in a timely fashion / repeatedly / and safely / and where appropriate using suitable aids and appliances.

New last para now reads

My reason for collecting these definitions is that as far as I read it the claimant will be considered ~ able to ~ perform an activity unless - they evidence the fact that they ~ can not ~ complete it reliably / in a timely fashion / repeatedly / and safely / and where appropriate using suitable aids and appliances.

CTcelt1988

sangio wrote: »

And so you should be!!

As for the car industry, with the increased levels of conditionality attached to mobility, it has been mentioned to me by a director of a large Vauxhall franchise, that plans are in place to see a reduction of up to 50% of Motability cars being required.

Motability say that they dont expect a huge decrease in numbers beling eligible for the scheme, 29% of people, out of 1.9m who qualify for HRM. currently choose Motability. It is hard to say what the actual figures will be who will lose out, but it is estimated that Motability will lose around 50,000 customers. That figure might increase. Motability will still continue however.

Richie-from-the-Boro

What we do know - Universal Credit - What & When

A White Paper on Universal Credit called "Welfare that Works" was published on 11th Nov 2010. The basics were published in the Welfare Reform Bill 2011, this later became the Welfare Reform Act 2012.

From Oct '13 to Apr '14 - New claims for out-of-work support will be treated as claims for UC. No new IB based JSA / or / income related ESA / IS / HB / claims will be accepted, individuals will move from out of work benefits on to UC.

Apr '14 no new claims for tax credits after this date.

Apr '14 to Oct '17 Existing claimants transfer to universal credit.

What goes ? - in fact legally abolished ? - The following benefits will be abolished:

- IS
- IB JSA
- IR ESA
- HB
- council tax benefit
- child tax credit & working tax credit
- crisis loans and community care grants will become [localism bill] the LA's responsibility
- budgeting loans will be replaced by an 'advance of universal credit' in cases of need

What stays ? - The following benefits will be continue to be legally available:

- CB JSA, but the the earnings rules will be aligned with UC
- CB ESA, but the the earnings rules will be aligned with UC
- child benefit
- carer’s allowance;
- bereavement allowance, bereavement payment and widowed parent’s allowance
- maternity allowance
- industrial injuries disablement benefit
- statutory maternity/adoption/paternity pay
- statutory sick pay
- maternity grants, funeral payments and cold weather payments

Sanctions already exist with welfare benefits, the proposed UC sanctions are:

UC will introduce tougher sanctions for existing claimants, all claimants must accept a ‘claimant commitment’ as a condition of receiving UC, they will then be placed into one of 4 groups:

- Claimants subject to no work-related requirements
- Claimants subject to the work-focused interview requirement only
- Claimants subject to the work preparation requirement
- Claimants subject to all work-related requirements


Its far to early to worry - we don't know enough !

CTcelt1988

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

What we do know - Universal Credit - What & When

A White Paper on Universal Credit called "Welfare that Works" was published on 11th Nov 2010. The basics were published in the Welfare Reform Bill 2011, this later became the Welfare Reform Act 2012.

From Oct '13 to Apr '14 - New claims for out-of-work support will be treated as claims for UC. No new IB based JSA / or / income related ESA / IS / HB / claims will be accepted, individuals will move from out of work benefits on to UC.

Apr '14 no new claims for tax credits after this date.

Apr '14 to Oct '17 Existing claimants transfer to universal credit.

What goes ? - in fact legally abolished ? - The following benefits will be abolished:

- IS
- IB JSA
- IR ESA
- HB
- council tax benefit
- child tax credit & working tax credit
- crisis loans and community care grants will become [localism bill] the LA's responsibility
- budgeting loans will be replaced by an 'advance of universal credit' in cases of need

What stays ? - The following benefits will be continue to be legally available:

- CB JSA, but the the earnings rules will be aligned with UC
- CB ESA, but the the earnings rules will be aligned with UC
- child benefit
- carer’s allowance;
- bereavement allowance, bereavement payment and widowed parent’s allowance
- maternity allowance
- industrial injuries disablement benefit
- statutory maternity/adoption/paternity pay
- statutory sick pay
- maternity grants, funeral payments and cold weather payments

Sanctions already exist with welfare benefits, the proposed UC sanctions are:

UC will introduce tougher sanctions for existing claimants, all claimants must accept a ‘claimant commitment’ as a condition of receiving UC, they will then be placed into one of 4 groups:

- Claimants subject to no work-related requirements
- Claimants subject to the work-focused interview requirement only
- Claimants subject to the work preparation requirement
- Claimants subject to all work-related requirements


Its far to early to worry - we don't know enough !

All we know is that it will be a disaster - their computer systems wont cope with all the changes at once, lets face it, the tax credit system isn't great now, so heavens knows what will happen when UC starts.

Richie-from-the-Boro

CTcelt1988 wrote: »

All we know is that it will be a disaster - their computer systems wont cope with all the changes at once, lets face it, the tax credit system isn't great now, so heavens knows what will happen when UC starts.

- you never know, rumours are have been bubbling up for some time in the DWP that delivering the housing 'element' is a no~go
- there is already talk of 'delaying ' the Oct 2013 start date and concentrating on the 'deliverables' only
- although the pilots stll go ahead - latest official updates are here

Richie-from-the-Boro

What we do know - ATOS & death

- government claims half of new claimants are found "fit to work"
- but forgets to mention that over 300,000 have appealed and almost 40% have won
- between January and August last year, 1,100 claimants died after they were put in the WRAG group
- this compares to 5,300 deaths of people who were put in the "support group"
- 1,600 people died before their assessment had been completed
- the assessment [ reduced payment ] should be completed in 13 weeks
- but 35,000 people suffer the reduced payment because they are waiting longer than 13 weeks

Atos carry out the WCA's as part of their £100million a year contract, Keith Wilman's nice 22% [£800.000] pay rise as a result of the £42million profit in 2010 makes me wonder how much extra he will earn this 2012 year as a result of the 2011 earnings. The firm made a £42million profit in 2010 and paid boss Keith Wilman £800,000, a 22% pay rise on the previous year .. .. nice one Keith !

With all these statistics and numbers its easy to forget every one is a human being. A human life .. .. .. gone forever. I accept that many would have died anyway, its called the mortality rate [ 6.5 deaths per 1000 ] but the number for the WRAG group [ 137 per 1000 ] is much higher than the national mortality rate. These islands proudly proclaim to be a welfare based society .. .. yeh ! right - of course it is !

NOTE: The mortality rate was for the general population, and that includes those who are of course over the age of 65 and would not be part of the WRAG group .. .. so draw your own conclusions.