- thoughts - just - thoughts

Anubis_2

If income related ESA is abolished what will someone claim who is unfit for work?

The more I read about UC, the more diverse it becomes. I can see UC being a train crash tbh, there is confusion over the complex rules now, whatever is going to happen when UC is implemented is going to be disasterous.

Invalidation

easy wrote: »

and (IMHO) the attitude of the general populace towards claiming benefits has changed.
.

And what the hell has THAT got to do with anything ?

I dont give a stuff what the general populace thinks, because they dont know how mine and others disabilities affect US

Walk a mile in MY shoes, (then again I havent been able to walk a mile in 40 years)

Richie-from-the-Boro

UC- what we don't know - passorted benefits & benefits in kind - in four groups: Education, Health, Utilities and Access to Justice.

People on benefits in general and disabled people in the particular regard benefit as just that - a support system for those on low income. Income is a poor description of the circumstances, disposable income is a much more accurate and objective word to describe the amount of money left over after paying for those extras only the disabled in society need to pay every week to maintain their independent living place in society and manage their health conditions.

Passported & in kind benefits currently include :

- the obvious such as the Blue Badge Scheme & Tax Disk exemption [DLAHRM]
- free prescriptions / sight tests for people with specified health conditions [means tested] / warm home discount scheme
- dental care / free school meals [a proxy indicator of deprivation] / wigs & appliances / legal aid / warm front
- working tax credit / housing benefit / council tax benefit / healthy start vouchers / assisted prison visits programme
- travel to receive NHS treatment / NHS Low Income Scheme [HC1&2] / prescription prepayment certificates
- energy providers discount / ‘Water for Life’ [yet to be agreed between providers and government]
- BT scheme discounts for those / IS / IB-JSA / IR-ESA and mobile phone users

NOTE1 : Generally, passported benefits in Scotland & Wales are a matter for the their own Government.
NOTE2 : Passported benefits are delivered either as benefits-in-kind, cash benefits, or given as discounts on charges or fees

The guiding principles for UC are – Making work pay, the new eligibility criteria for passported benefits that will need to be in place from 2013 - we will wait and see !

moose1982

Being the ever optimist that I am (;)) I think the main reason for UC being slightly open ended is so that it could get through the halls of Westminster. If we had a Conservative government in place, I expect it would be a lot tighter, but the Lib Dems are holding them back from going ahead with what they really want. If, come the next election, Conservatives win, then the openness of the current plans give them the ability to implement what they really want. It also restricts slightly on what any other party can do if someone else wins.

I think the main reason it's a bit of a mess is purely so that they could have got it passed through. We'll have to wait and see what happens.

Invalidation

sangio wrote: »

I think what the poster was getting at is that the general population now sees those that claim benefits as being scroungers of the first degree.

There is a general distaste of those that claim welfare as they are seen to be leeches on society and more importantly, on those that work and pay for those benefits.

Those that claim welfare are now seen as worse if not more worse than those that commit criminal offences including drink driving and illegal drug taking.
I would go one step further and suggest that buying smuggled drink and tobacco as well as buying fake products is a lot more acceptable than is claiming a benefit.

And what about the biggest benefit scroungers of all? The Queen and her 'royal family' Existing on millions in public handouts each year, yet having a personal and private income making her one of the richest people in the world/
I see the public in general are happy to support her and her thieving family's lifestyles.

melbury

Invalidation wrote: »

And what about the biggest benefit scroungers of all? The Queen and her 'royal family' Existing on millions in public handouts each year, yet having a personal and private income making her one of the richest people in the world/
I see the public in general are happy to support her and her thieving family's lifestyles.

What absolute twaddle:mad:

Invalidation

melbury wrote: »

What absolute twaddle:mad:

No, simply the truth. She and her rabble exists on State handouts whilst banking the income from her private estates.

speedfreek1000

You're all missing one god dam all mighty nasty piece of work of an elephant in the room that is.....

Council Tax benefit to be replaced by Council Tax Support schemes in April 2013.

Some info http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policylobbying/localgovernmentfinance/taxation/localisingcounciltaxbenefit.htm

Londons' 32 Councils response http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/London%20Councils/LCCTBconsultationresponseFinalforsubmissiontoCLG.pdf

Entittledtos' draft of a design for it. http://www.solutions.entitledto.co.uk/docs/DesigningLocalCouncilTaxSupportSchemes.pdf

Note how the reduction burden will fall wholly on those judged non vulnerable and also the classification of IR-JSA & IR-ESA WRAG as non vulnerable.

Sorry I forgot all those in the WRAG are capable of work with a little support... whoops silly me eh! Plus all those jobs for everyone else.

leveller2911

sangio wrote: »

I think what the poster was getting at is that the general population now sees those that claim benefits as being scroungers of the first degree.

There is a general distaste of those that claim welfare as they are seen to be leeches on society and more importantly, on those that work and pay for those benefits.

Those that claim welfare are now seen as worse if not more worse than those that commit criminal offences including drink driving and illegal drug taking.
I would go one step further and suggest that buying smuggled drink and tobacco as well as buying fake products is a lot more acceptable than is claiming a benefit.

Do you honestly believe that?, come on now ,be honest do you?.
You will always have people who are jealous and tar all with the same brush but 99% of the General Public just want a fair system and at the moment we don't have that.If you go back to the 50s,60,70,s it was frowned upon to receive benefits but its never been frowned upon to receive disability benefits until you started getting people claiming to be disabled when they clearly were capable of working. Some in Society see the Benefits system as entitlement rather than a safety net for most.

We are a modern progressive Society and I don't believe for one minute what you say is right.Human nature means that people always want more for doing less and Society has to keep a balanced fair system or divisions will appear and widen.

krisskross

leveller2911 wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that?, come on now ,be honest do you?.
You will always have people who are jealous and tar all with the same brush but 99% of the General Public just want a fair system and at the moment we don't have that.If you go back to the 50s,60,70,s it was frowned upon to receive benefits but its never been frowned upon to receive disability benefits until you started getting people claiming to be disabled when they clearly were capable of working. Some in Society see the Benefits system as entitlement rather than a safety net for most.

We are a modern progressive Society and I don't believe for one minute what you say is right.Human nature means that people always want more for doing less and Society has to keep a balanced fair system or divisions will appear and widen.

There is a very prolific poster who I have no doubt has many health issues. However she has recently been posting about her opportunity to work from home, hoping to be able to do 16 hours a week in order to qualify for WTC.

I have no doubt that there will be financial advantage to her in doing this but it takes changes in legislation surrounding benefits and their eligibility to give people the impetus to see what they can do rather than continue in permanent 'too ill to do any work' mode.