Three have raised prices; cause to cancel contract?

real1314

Quentin wrote: »

You are misunderstanding "variation".

That doesn't mean a change in the price you pay! (That isn't specified in the contract - all it says is the price we pay is as shown in their "Price Guide".) (The price guide isn't covered in the ts + cs and can change)

It means a variation to the ts + cs (eg. they decide to make us give them 3 months notice if we want to leave)

Any contract that does not define how and when a price change will be made could be unfair under OFT guidance. In this case (and in the case of other providers) such charges could probably have been better addressed by OFT rather than OFCOM; on the basis of unfair contract terms.

I've still not seen anything in the 3 terms and conditions that refer to them being able to change the price by less than inflation; and 3 are specifically referring to terms and conditions to justify the change. :cool:

System

I was pretty unimpressed to receive my text regarding this increase, I've been researching for a little while this evening. Many things people are stating here and elsewhere seem to be nonsense.

There is no term which allows Three to increase their prices by RPI while denying customers the right to cancel without penalty. There is a term allowing them to vary the price, and this requires them to give a months notice if the change is above RPI, that's it.

Quentin wrote: »

You are misunderstanding "variation".

That doesn't mean a change in the price you pay!

That doesn't mean a change in the price you pay! (That isn't specified in the contract - all it says is the price we pay is as shown in their "Price Guide".) (The price guide isn't covered in the ts + cs and can change)

It means a variation to the ts + cs (eg. they decide to make us give them 3 months notice if we want to leave)

4. Variations to your agreement or prices

Pretty explicit. The price is the most obvious part of the agreement, regardless of whether or not it is contained in the same document.

Your agreement is made up of these Terms for Three
Services and your Package, along with any other
terms laid down in selected Additional Three Services
on the Device. Additional terms may apply to any
promotional or special offers.

Package: Phone, minutes, texts etc etc, in exchange for money, i.e the agreed price. My package is defined on the letter Three sent with my phone. It gives a start date, a duration, and the monthly cost. Unsurprisingly it also fails to mention price increases, inflation based or otherwise.

Quentin

real1314 wrote: »

...I've still not seen anything in the 3 terms and conditions that refer to them being able to change the price by less than inflation; and 3 are specifically referring to terms and conditions to justify the change. :cool:

There isn't anything that refers them being able to increase prices by less than inflation!

(But they are actually increasing them in line with inflation aren't they?)

They do say that the "charges" for the service are set out in the price guide, and they define an increase above inflation as being detrimental, which allows us to cancel without penalty.

This (forthcoming) change to the price guide seems covered - it's not above inflation, so not "detrimental" as defined un the ts + cs.

zkw29

Quentin wrote: »

You are misunderstanding "variation".

That doesn't mean a change in the price you pay! (That isn't specified in the contract - all it says is the price we pay is as shown in their "Price Guide".) (The price guide isn't covered in the ts + cs and can change)

It means a variation to the ts + cs (eg. they decide to make us give them 3 months notice if we want to leave)

Ahh I didn't think of it like that - that kind of makes sense. Thanks for explaining it (even if it wasn't quite the answer I wanted to hear ).

Whilst I'd obviously prefer the £1.25 to be in my pocket than theirs, I don't really have a problem with it if it's there in the terms and conditions I agreed to. I really struggled to decide between buying my phone upfront with a PAYG sim or taking out the contract. In the end there wasn't much difference in price overall so I went for the contract. That's another factor for me to consider next time though.

The only bit I'm still puzzled by (and I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just interested): if the prices aren't in the ts & cs and can change, what would happen if they did something ridiculous like made all calls outwith my bundle £1 a minute? How can the charges not form part of the terms and conditions?

System

Quentin wrote: »

They do say that the "charges" for the service are set out in the price guide, and they define an increase above inflation as being detrimental, which allows us to cancel without penalty.

Please quote the source of this.

zkw29

Quentin wrote: »

There isn't anything that refers them being able to increase prices by less than inflation!

(But they are actually increasing them in line with inflation aren't they?)

They do say that the "charges" for the service are set out in the price guide, and they define an increase above inflation as being detrimental, which allows us to cancel without penalty.

This (forthcoming) change to the price guide seems covered - it's not above inflation, so not "detrimental" as defined un the ts + cs.

The relevant section doesn't say below inflation isn't detrimental. It says they will give a months notice (and the right to cancel?) if they:

make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you; or
increase the fixed periodic charges for your Package (if applicable) by an amount which is more than the percentage increase in the Retail Prices Index Figure (or any future equivalent) in any twelve month period.

munchingfoo

Quentin wrote: »

You are misunderstanding "variation".

That doesn't mean a change in the price you pay! (That isn't specified in the contract - all it says is the price we pay is as shown in their "Price Guide".) (The price guide isn't covered in the ts + cs and can change)

It means a variation to the ts + cs (eg. they decide to make us give them 3 months notice if we want to leave)

By this logic they could increase the rate 500% and you'd still have to pay.

In the case that the use of a word is ambiguous in a contract then the decision will always be in favour of the person signing the contract.

Here it is not made clear as to which variation they mean therefore can apply to the entire agreement, including price.

I believe Three have shot themselves in the foot with this one. There is nothing in the contract that says "we can put the price up in line with inflation and you cannot cancel the contract". (unless someone would care to show me?)

Neither para 4 nor 10 stipulate this. To be honest, that's all i've read so happy if someone has another para to read!

As a note, none of this applies to me because I just renewed my contract with three but I wish to stop such rises as a matter of principle.

Quentin

zkw29 wrote: »

if the prices aren't in the ts & cs and can change, what would happen if they did something ridiculous like made all calls outwith my bundle £1 a minute? How can the charges not form part of the terms and conditions?

Were they to do that, then if you weren't happy that would be a detrimental price increase (as defined in the ts + cs), and you could cancel without penalty.

Quentin

mutzi wrote: »

Please quote the source of this.

3's ts + cs

zkw29

munchingfoo wrote: »

By this logic they could increase the rate 500% and you'd still have to pay.

If it was the line rental that went up by 500% that would be above RPI and therefore make you eligible to cancel. Although I agree, by that logic if call charges went up by 500% apparently we'd be stuck with it.