Facing dismissal over proof of nationality.

MrMuttley

InsideInsurance wrote: »

How is it insulting?

Asking me to pay to provide information I have already provided twice is ridiculous and insulting IMHO

DVardysShadow

InsideInsurance wrote: »

How is it insulting?

It was Margaret Thatcher who came out against the National ID Card and said 'it is too Germanic'. You can criticise the manner of expression, but it goes to the core of the issue.

We have to prove our Britishness in a way which strikes against the very core of that Britishness. We have to produce papers in a way which we would rile against if foreigners imposed it on us. But it is not foreigners doing it. It isn't the EU, we are doing it to ourselves.

I'm more taken with how funny it is than how insulting.

hardpressed

Horseunderwater wrote: »

Funny you should say this - my OH has just had exactly the same happen at his works. Been there since 2005 - is a UK national, but his passport expired. The reason they sent this letter to all their employees was one is USA born and had a long term works visa, he went to visit his mom and then could not get back into the UK. The border patrols personel said it was not valid and had run out. It hadn't, their records were not up to date! So of course he was held in detention until it got sorted, so was late returning from leave etc.
Why on earth they would think my OH is not born in the UK or anyone else who works there is a complete mystery to both of us. He has only ever been out of the UK less than 10 times in all his life, most of them while married to me. We just do not do travel now. Lack of money and my health combination. Hence he does not I think have a valid passport. I think a driving license with photo was mentioned and birth cert as other possible proofs. Cheaper option is if I can find his birth cert, which I am not sure where it is at moment. So I am looking at driving license.

He can get a replacement birth certificate much cheaper than a passport, always handy to have one. You can order on line on the offical registry office site, don't use other companies as they charge much more.

john539

saintjammyswine wrote: »

They may not be an illegal immigrant to not have the right to work though. Could be on a student or holiday visa for example.

So what ?

The checks are for prospective employees after 1997 at point of employment.

You don't need to prove anything to any jobsworth administrator idiot after you have been checked first time at point of employment.

john539

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

It applies to anyone who has been employed since 1997, but the law changed in 2008. So employers have to work with three different regimes (pre 97, 97-2008 and post 2008).

Perhaps understandably, many (most?) employers simply check everyone, rather than run the risk of getting it wrong. Some employers can't easily retrieve the date on which employment began, especially if they have to dig back through paper files. Payroll systems don't need to record the date employment began and most either don't demand this data or function if it's left blank.

People have rights, people should have been checked at point of employment, people don't need to be rechecked & those employed prior to 1997 don't need to be checked at all.

The employers are doing it wrong.

It's like Health & Safety gone mad, with wrong implementation & people trying to cover their backs.

It does not make it right.

CKhalvashi

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Hence, many employers repeat the checks and you are stuck with providing the documents - again and again and again ....

It's not personal! JFDI

I can vouch for that!

I’ve taken a ‘common sense’ approach when dealing with Employees, that as far as I’m aware, is perfectly reasonable.

Once an employee has shown an EEC passport, they’re entitled to work for us forever, if we have a visa on file, my diary has the employees 3 letter code on my diary of when it expires. Re-checking is done at this point.

Common sense, complies with law, job done!

CK

ktothema

MrMuttley wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate it.

It's unfortunate that I don't have my expired passport.

Don't get me wrong I entirely understand the need to verify and employees right to work in the UK at the point of employment. And if you are here on a temporary working visa then of course they should be checking it's still valid but this isn't the case for me. I dont know where/if I have a naturalisation certificate or similar paperwork. It was after all 37 years ago and I was but a toddler at the time.

Mr Muttley, try contacting the uk border agency. Apparently they can reissue you with a naturalisation certificate you were issued with. There'll be a fee, but undoubtedly much less than getting a passport and will last forever rather than 10 yrs.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/aboutus/contact/

You don't have to have a passport, it isn't compulsory (yet at least). A copy of your naturalisation certificate along with an official document like a P45 or p60 showing your permanent NI number is sufficient.

liney

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/employersandsponsors/preventingillegalworking/currentguidanceandcodes/comprehensiveguidancefeb08.pdf?view=Binary

Page 8 -
List A

documents show that the holder is not

subject to immigration control, or has no

restrictions on their stay in the UK

. If your prospective employee produces a List A document

(or one of the combinations of documents

specified), they can work for you for an indefinite

period. When you have carried out the appropriate

checks you will have an ongoing excuse against

liability to pay a civil penalty.


Also see page 79 - flow chart of checking documents. - states that a certificate of Naturalisation plus P45/P60 will also cover you indefinately.

eamon

Aside from the OP's position that is easily solved always remember that currently in the UK there are many people that owing to chaotic circumstances (broken homes for one) that find it extremely difficult to satisfy legal requirements.

MrMuttley

Having read up on it I'm not sure Naturalisation applies to me because I was born to British parents and entered the UK as a child. Therefore my British citizenship is automatic unless I do something to forfeit it such as join the diplomatic services of Canada.

Naturalisation seem to apply to people who are here and then gain the right to stay such as marrying a British spouse etc.