I'm beginning to feel paranoid .......

JodyBPM

Fatballz, I'm probably not *much* older than you (mid thirties) and I own my own 3 bed house in an expensive part of the South East outright, without a mortgage. No lottery wins, no financial parental help at all, simply by taking a lot of the best things that I saw my parents do, and living my life in the way they did when I was growing up.

We holiday in the UK, camping or caravanning, usually for 3 or 4 nights on deals, no holiday has cost us, a family of 4, more than around £100-150 in total. Love to know where you are finding your overseas holidays cheaper? We bought all our furniture second hand (and most of our clothes too for that matter) we cook well from scratch, use basic and cheaper cuts of meat, when the children's clothes get holes, I mend them, when they get to short I let them down or add a frill! I cut all the families hair, as my mother did for us, we cut our own logs and burn them, and keep the heating costs down etc etc. Essentially, we have lived in the same style as the baby boomer generation, and as a result have the same rewards!

When I was a child (probably in the late 70s or early 80s) I can remember my mothers shopping budget being £40 a week for a family of four, no frills just for basic foods. Mine was the same up until about 18 months ago - food was a *much* bigger expense back then. As were clothes - no Primarks or supermarket clothes back then - I remember my mother making many of our clothes (as I now do for my children). Veg were grown in the garden, chickens kept in the backyard. Only 1 car run, and only when needed. If it was walkable - you walked it!

Essentially, if you are prepared to live like the baby boomers did - back to basics, with a lot of effort put in, and without the so-called "essentials" of smartphones, satellite tv, gym memberships, 2nd cars, overseas holidays, magazine subscriptions, ipods etc then you too could own your house outright on what you deem as a good salary in a matter of a few years.

Unless you are prepared to live like the babyboomer generation did, then I don't think you can consider them so lucky. You only seem to see the ways they had it "easy" without any appreciation for the ways they had it much, much harder than us.

lostinrates

You know, there s a whole board to discuss generational advantage to house prices etc. (debate houseprices and the economy board.). It attracts a fair amount of weirdos and sme eo,e with very strong opinions too, but it can be very educational, and ipncreases the understanding of how things really work. I have learned a. Lot there in the last few years.

Fwiw, i don't think boomers are to blame for being born then, but i do think they have lived through remarkable times, both politically and culturally, and with personal opportunity never seen before and possibly not to be seen any time soon. I am however happy with my lot. My husband works very hard to oay our mortgage, i worked very hard to save the deposit for it before i was ill. We feel incredibly lucky to have afforded it, but also, to have had the lives we had where even with my ill health and one income we are self sufficient, in much the way my parents were.

Fwiw, dh and my parents and i have done the maths several times and of course starting out we would have done better as boomers, IN OUR circumstance, not having children and being a sinlge professional income household. Others would not have done so well, my mother was a single mother and had Such limited support and help. we are now mid thirties, so plenty of time to do better still) but we do not know what things will be by the time dh retires. You never know, it might all be better for us 'in the end' we cannot know yet!

Dunroamin

**Patty** wrote: »

The vast majority of families today get nothing but Child Benefit (formerly Family Allowance)

Rubbish! Nearly 80% of families with children receive tax credits.

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/instanceSelection.do?JSAllowed=true&Function=&%24ph=61&CurrentPageId=61&step=2&datasetFamilyId=2117&instanceSelection=028087&Next.x=11&Next.y=8

Spendless

Dunroamin wrote: »

Rubbish! Nearly 80% of families with children receive tax credits.

At one point that was true but there's been recent changes, which started last year and further changes last month.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcreditsbudget/index.htm

FATBALLZ

JodyBPM wrote: »

Fatballz, I'm probably not *much* older than you (mid thirties) and I own my own 3 bed house in an expensive part of the South East outright, without a mortgage. No lottery wins, no financial parental help at all, simply by taking a lot of the best things that I saw my parents do, and living my life in the way they did when I was growing up.

Sounds like you were able to buy in the mid 90s-2000 period then, which was probably the best time in living memory to buy a house. It certainly isn't possible for anyone on an average or slightly above average income to do what you're suggesting at today's prices, and especially not in the south east. When I came out of education and into full time work house prices were a full £100k higher on average than they were in the mid 90s.

JodyBPM wrote: »

We holiday in the UK, camping or caravanning, usually for 3 or 4 nights on deals, no holiday has cost us, a family of 4, more than around £100-150 in total. Love to know where you are finding your overseas holidays cheaper? We bought all our furniture second hand (and most of our clothes too for that matter) we cook well from scratch, use basic and cheaper cuts of meat, when the children's clothes get holes, I mend them, when they get to short I let them down or add a frill! I cut all the families hair, as my mother did for us, we cut our own logs and burn them, and keep the heating costs down etc etc. Essentially, we have lived in the same style as the baby boomer generation, and as a result have the same rewards!

When I was a child (probably in the late 70s or early 80s) I can remember my mothers shopping budget being £40 a week for a family of four, no frills just for basic foods. Mine was the same up until about 18 months ago - food was a *much* bigger expense back then. As were clothes - no Primarks or supermarket clothes back then - I remember my mother making many of our clothes (as I now do for my children). Veg were grown in the garden, chickens kept in the backyard. Only 1 car run, and only when needed. If it was walkable - you walked it!

Essentially, if you are prepared to live like the baby boomers did - back to basics, with a lot of effort put in, and without the so-called "essentials" of smartphones, satellite tv, gym memberships, 2nd cars, overseas holidays, magazine subscriptions, ipods etc then you too could own your house outright on what you deem as a good salary in a matter of a few years.

Unless you are prepared to live like the babyboomer generation did, then I don't think you can consider them so lucky. You only seem to see the ways they had it "easy" without any appreciation for the ways they had it much, much harder than us.

In terms of holidays, we haven't had an overseas holiday (or anything except the odd night in a budget hotel) for two years, and are not going this year. So I'm not aware of the exact price at this moment. I would suggest a bog standard package holiday could be had for the same or less than a holiday to the Isle of Wight as per the example given earlier though.

I don't have a smartphone, we've never owned 2 cars, no satellite tv, no gym membership (go running in the neighbourhood, do weights at home), etc etc, my aim is to pay the mortgage off by age 40. Possibly if we we budgeted to the extreme we could shave 5 years off that, however thats still 14 years since entering full time work.

Of course in material terms things are better now than they were, however the housing situation is much worse, the figures for FTBs today are indisputable. And I can only speak for myself, but surely housing and security of bringing up a family without a landlord hanging over you is more important than have a phone that plays Angry Birds or an mp3 player. Private renting in this country is awful, tenants have virtually no enforceable rights (landlord can kick you out any time, without reason).

**Patty**

Dunroamin wrote: »

Rubbish! Nearly 80% of families with children receive tax credits.

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/dissemination/instanceSelection.do?JSAllowed=true&Function=&%24ph=61&CurrentPageId=61&step=2&datasetFamilyId=2117&instanceSelection=028087&Next.x=11&Next.y=8

Firstly, those stats are from 2008......its now, to state the obvious, 2012.

Secondly, as someone with A level maths (from when you did Pure/Mechanics AND Stats)....statistics can be manipulated to show whatever you want them to show.

On the subject of holidays.......2 adults, 3 children under16.......1 weeks Half Board at Butlins (gold apartment) £2130..........same week in Ibiza All Inclusive.... £2200.

I know which one i'd choose

HeatherintheHills

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Sounds like you were able to buy in the mid 90s-2000 period then, which was probably the best time in living memory to buy a house.

So why have a go at the baby boomers if your gripe is with anyone who bought property at a good time?

Incidentally, if you bought property last year then you also bought at a good time and are likely to reap the benefits in years to come.

Incidentally, from the HMRC site being quoted above

If you got the '50-plus element' - this has ended
If you were getting the extra amount of Working Tax Credit, called the '50-plus element', this stopped from 6 April 2012.
This means your payments could have gone down from 6 April 2012

If you're aged 50 or over - working hours changes
Before April 2012, if you got the '50-plus element', you only needed to work at least 16 hours a week to qualify for Working Tax Credit.
Now the 50-plus element has stopped, from 6 April 2012 if you're not working a certain number of hours your payments may have stopped altogether

It isn't just young families being hit.

thorsoak

When we bought our first home it was that - oour first HOME. We didn't enter into a mortgage thinking we will make money from this. We stayed for 13 years.

Second home - we stayed for 32 years.

Third home - OH enjoyed it for less that 3 years. Me ? I'm staying put - my children can sell it when I'm gone

FATBALLZ

HeatherintheHills wrote: »

So why have a go at the baby boomers if your gripe is with anyone who bought property at a good time?

Incidentally, if you bought property last year then you also bought at a good time and are likely to reap the benefits in years to come.

Because it's about more than just housing. And as I mentioned earlier boomers is a slightly lazy generalisation, but I'm not going to explain the ins and outs every time I post on the subject.

Doubt last year is a good time to buy a house personally, although better than 2005-7, prices still over double historical averages, government still propping up prices, what I believe is that nominal house prices will stay the same for a good few years, and wages will eventually catch up. Certainly that would be my preference, stop me going in to negative equity (although I am some way off), and by the time my child(ren) comes to adulthood, they won't have to take on eyewatering debt or be stuck renting.

HeatherintheHills

You can no more know what the future holds for you than we did when we were starting out.

I bought the year before you and the value of my property plummeted last year. To me, you are the one laughing all the way to the bank. But I don't hold that against you, it is just a matter of timing.

You have been given factual accounts of how hard many people of all generations have struggled to find security and said yes, but housing... now you say it isn't just that.

Your signature still displays the sweeping generalisation that is so offensive to so many. You really are one of Maggies children.