I'm beginning to feel paranoid .......

thorsoak

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Lol, a thread started to (partly) moan about me, there's a landmark.:)

Maybe you feel paranoid, but it's nothing compared to the treatment my generation gets - I'm fed up of (for example), being told by older people on these forums that the reason my generation has to pay double to triple what previous ones did for a house is because we don't work hard enough (non sequitur much). There are a swarm of older posters with a sense of entitlement who delight in putting down the young of today so my signature is simply a cold hard dose of facts to shed a bit of reality on the situation.

My generation won't get to retire until they're in their 70s, can't afford housing, have crap pensions (if any at all), get charged £50k for a useable education, yet any suggestion that the government try to sort this out is met with an implict response that old people, with their £100ks of unearned property wealth are more important and winter fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners should take priority because they have 'paid their way'.

The fact is many of these people have retired at 60, even earlier, and think that working 40 years will have contributed enough to pay 30 years of state pension, 30 years of other OAP freebies and 85 years of public services. This has no basis in reality, and in fact a typical boomer will take out approx 118% more from the system than they put into it over their lifetime.

If my signature means even one old person has a rethink, and realises "you know what, I was able to buy a house and raise a family with one wage, got a solid occupational pension, can enjoy a few decades at the end of my life without working and in relative comfort, maybe I haven't had such a bad deal", then that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. It's actually more my own small attempt at raising awareness of how bad a deal my generation is looking at - don't expect this to go away, as we get more political power politicians will have to start listening.

Yup - looks like I was right ....just because I'm paranoid, it don't mean they're not out to get us!!

If you've read my posts, Fatballz (does that describe your state in life, I wonder) you'll know that I'm not one of those who has settled into "few decades at the end of my life without working" - I'm one of a growing band of people who have returned to work - I start at 6.45 am 4 mornings a week & work until 1pm. I'm loving it - I love the feeling of being useful, I don't resent paying tax, and paying towards supporting you and your family - why should I? Other friends who have retired do voluntary work - in hospital shops, doing meals on wheels, mentoring troubled youngsters, helping with disabled or really elderly - reading for the blind, etc, etc.

Don't forget - our private pension funds that we were conned into taking out took a walloping in the late 90s/early noughties - anyone remember Bob Maxwell plundering the Mirror Group pension funds? People are still suffering from that! I should have had a decent pension, according to projections in the early 90s - in actual fact, its about 65% of what was projected, and of course, costs have risen in the mean time.

Yes, we had golden years - we were the lucky generation - but each generation makes its own luck - and bitterness will sour yours, I'm afraid!

FATBALLZ

thorsoak wrote: »

Yes, we had golden years - we were the lucky generation - but each generation makes its own luck - and bitterness will sour yours, I'm afraid!

Well, 'making' your own luck is dubious, it would be reasonable to assert that boomers* made their own 'luck' in the housing market by collectively constraining supply and loosening credit lines forcing house prices sky high and multiplying their own wealth many times over.

I actually do consider myself lucky, I was born intelligent enough to get qualifications that led me on to my current reasonably good salary, and I was lucky enough to meet a partner whilst young who is relatively successful herself. Ignoring the obvious non-financial luck, this also means we have been able to buy a below-average house (but we like it) to settle down in.

However I feel for those who can only earn average wages, who don't meet their partner early on. 30 years ago they'd still be able to buy a decent place together, and would now be set up for a good retirement, however today they are more likely to be stuck in a horrible private rental cycle, no hope of buying, dealing with amateur landlords, unable to save for a pension, paying off student loans. It's no wonder so many sit on benefits when the advantages of working are so dubious.

And whilst I know my posts my make me seem 'bitter', I'm really not, it's just that there are only certain subjects I feel the need to post on, so what you see is only a subset of my views

*I accept boomers is a slightly lazy generalisation, as I mentioned before, the luckiest people in the housing market were those who bought in the mid 90s, so more gen X. However boomers have on balance had the most birthday related benefits of any generation.

January20

FATBALLZ wrote: »

My generation won't get to retire until they're in their 70s, can't afford housing, have crap pensions (if any at all), get charged £50k for a useable education, yet any suggestion that the government try to sort this out is met with an implict response that old people, with their £100ks of unearned property wealth are more important and winter fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners should take priority because they have 'paid their way'.

I don't know how much younger than me you are, but I have a friend who is 20 years older than me, so the same age as the OP. We have often discussed the difference between then and now.

I wasn't easy then to get housing. Often only the husband's salary was taken into consideration when buying a property. Now women are thankfully equal.

People started their life together with bits and bobs that they were given as wedding presents or by generous parents. My friend told me when she started her married life she had not pillows on her bed. She and her husband had to get those from their old bedroom at their respective parents. Getting credit was not as easy to get as now and being bankrupt was nothing short of being a criminal.

People saved for things they needed/ wanted. Now, young couples want everything and they put in on the never never, until it all collapses...

I will probably have to work until I am very old, but so what? That's life! I'm glad I'm my generation and not my baby-boomer friend's generation. I have had the benefit of living in a society where as a woman, I am mostly regarded as an equal, where I can do as I please and not be too judged. I have had the benefit of more advanced technology and more advanced medical treatment, etc.

What is the point of starting this generation war? What is the point of being so bitter? If you don't want to work until you're 70+, then do something about it! Personally, I'd rather work than be stuck within 4 walls with no money and nothing to do!

January20

thorsoak, I like old people: they scare me less than the young

Seriously, though, they often have better manners and will talk to you on public transport or in long queues. And they will say thank you if you hold the door for them (most of them )

libra10

I agree that there are many generalisations being made on this thread.

My husband and I married in the 1970s and bought our home. We couldn't afford to pay above £4000, and our home was priced just under.

I agree that we could claim state retirement earlier than today's younger people. However, we baby boomers never had access to income support, family credits and all the other benefits that today's parents are entitled to.

When our two children were born I stayed home and was allowed about £2 family allowance.

We didn't have foreign holidays but kidded ourselves that our annual holiday to the Isle of Man was the next best thing. We saved up for anything we needed, and never got into debt, actually managing to save for retirement.

There have been so many changes in the 40 years I've been married: equal pay for women (in theory!), increasing family breakdowns, etc etc. it sometimes seems like another world!

HeatherintheHills

FATBALLZ wrote: »

Well 'easily' is possibly a misleading term, the 'easiest' time to buy was the mid 90s, so not so much the boomers. 1988/89 was a hard time to buy, although people always forget MIRAS, which made things a lot easier than the headline figures suggest. In general though, house prices in real terms are much higher now (multiples higher) than they were at any time before the year 2000 (including 1989).

If somebody can explain to me how it wasn't significantly easier for the person who bought my house for the modern equivalent of £42k back in 1972, a full £100k+ less than I did last year, bearing in mind MIRAS, etc, then I'd like to know and I may rethink my stance. If I could have got the place for £42k, I wouldn't have had to bother with the mortgage.

The acid test is of course could many of the people living in their homes today afford them at todays prices, doing the jobs they were when they bought them at equivalent salary. For a large number of people (and probably a majority in the south east), that would be a no.

The average salary today is £25,000. In 1972 was was £2,262 (source Financial Times) Women earned substantially less as that was pre-equal pay campaigns. Average working week was over 40 hours, it was 1972 when the EU working conditions directive made its first appearance. We started work at 14. University education wasn't really opened up to the working classes until the 1960s There wasn't any child care other than family. Oh, and in 1972 unemployment was 1 million, by 1982 it had risen to 3 million. It is now about 2.5 million. And we still had mortgages when Black Wednesday hit. Interest rates went up from 10% to 15% in a few hours. Anyone who had a mortgage was about to lose their home.

And while I'm about it, mortgage interest rates, check this site and see how much movement there has been in the rates.

House values alone tell you nothing. To know what the cost of a home to a family was in any given period you have to include interest rates. Fancy paying 25% interest on your current mortgage like I once had to? Thought not.

**Patty**

libra10 wrote: »

I agree that there are many generalisations being made on this thread.

My husband and I married in the 1970s and bought our home. We couldn't afford to pay above £4000, and our home was priced just under.

I agree that we could claim state retirement earlier than today's younger people. However, we baby boomers never had access to income support, family credits and all the other benefits that today's parents are entitled to.

When our two children were born I stayed home and was allowed about £2 family allowance.

We didn't have foreign holidays but kidded ourselves that our annual holiday to the Isle of Man was the next best thing. We saved up for anything we needed, and never got into debt, actually managing to save for retirement.

There have been so many changes in the 40 years I've been married: equal pay for women (in theory!), increasing family breakdowns, etc etc. it sometimes seems like another world!

Speaking of generalisations, would you mind telling me what they are?

The vast majority of families today get nothing but Child Benefit (formerly Family Allowance)

I remember my parents buying their house in 1972.....it cost just under £6k......its currently on the market for circa £170k......pity they later got divorced just think of the fun they could have had with THAT equity!:D

FATBALLZ

January20 wrote: »

What is the point of starting this generation war? What is the point of being so bitter? If you don't want to work until you're 70+, then do something about it! Personally, I'd rather work than be stuck within 4 walls with no money and nothing to do!

It's not a 'war', there are just serious imbalances and they should be addressed, society has almost been split right down the middle of 'haves' and 'have nots', whereas in the olden days at least the 'haves' were a small minority, not just some people in the street who happened to be born in the right year.

And make no mistake I don't plan on working til I'm 70, but most people don't earn as much as I do. They are the ones who will suffer, whilst their equivalents from previous generations enjoyed state-funded retirements from as early at 60 (and have large housing equity gains to fall back on)

FATBALLZ

libra10 wrote: »

We didn't have foreign holidays but kidded ourselves that our annual holiday to the Isle of Man was the next best thing. We saved up for anything we needed, and never got into debt, actually managing to save for retirement.

This is another misleading thing. I've looked at holidaying in the UK, and just can't justify the cost. Holidaying abroad is actually a lot cheaper these days (depending where you go of course).

thorsoak

When I married (age 20, OH 23), we'd been engaged for 2 years. I lived in parental home, OH moved down to London when he finished his trainee status and lived with relatives in the year before we married. On gross earnings of less than £19 per week, we had a mortgage that cost £20. 5s. 1d per month (interest rate 6.125% fixed). That was in 1963. Standard rate income tax was then 7s 9d in the £. Hire purchase was controlled by the Treasury.

When we sold and moved on in 1976, we didn't think that we were "collectively constraining supply and loosening credit lines forcing house prices sky high and multiplying their own wealth many times over." - we sold and bought at the then-market rate - and the market was controlled by the inflation caused by the early 1970s fuel crisis (before North Sea Oil/gas came into production). A few couples buying and selling their homes in SE Essex can hardly be blamed for the woes that overtook us all!

Baby boomers are only just coming up to retirement age now ....I know several in the baby boomer age-bracket who have had their retirement ages increased from 60 to 66 (women) and to 68 (men) - and with the diminished pensions that we are all chuntering about.