Benefits for new parents

just_trying

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

There is no limit to the number of children the parents can claim money from the welfare state for, with the welfare cap.

I'm still not convinced that the money given these parents to help their children out of poverty, gets spent on their children. I would rather the childs welfare payments (tax credits and child benefit) was spend directly on these children through council run schemes and that none of this money is given to their parents.

Where else does the money get spent. You would rather the money was spent on council run schemes, well welcome to the real world council run schemes don't feed, put clothes on a child, roof over there head, along with heating, electric etc. The list could go on. No one is claiming anything they are not entitlied to it's about topping up a wage so you have enough to live on or alot of people would be better of on the dole.

zagfles

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Why do some welfare claimants always use that as a reason to give them money for the children they decided to have, but want the welfare state to pay for?

Some of those "other peoples' children" will also become muggers, murderers, burglars; welfare claimants; need state welfare payments for the children they bring into the world, just as their parents did to raise them.

We need to limit the number of children per family that the welfare state will give parents money for (or better still, feed the children and don't give the parents any of the childs welfare money) and raise the pension age (have already raised that to 68 and can raise it higher).

I don't disagree in principle, what p**sses me off is clueless "child free" people whinging about supporting other peoples' children in general, when in general those same children will be supporting them in a generation's time. The vast majority of the taxes being paid in 30-40 years time will be paid by the children of today and the children yet to be born.

On average people of working age subsidise both children and pensioners through the tax and benefit system, this cross-generational subsidy is built into the system. Yet you get hypocrites who benefitted from this cross-generational subsidy as children, and will benefit again as pensioners, but who whinge about providing the subsidy when they're working.

Points about the distribution of the subsidy across different family types are a different argument - those who benefitted most are probably more likely to contribute less and vv, but you get the same people whinging about supporting a large family on IS as a smaller family earning £50k+.

zagfles

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

There is no limit to the number of children the parents can claim money from the welfare state for, with the welfare cap.

I'm still not convinced that the money given these parents to help their children out of poverty, gets spent on their children. I would rather the childs welfare payments (tax credits and child benefit) was spend directly on these children through council run schemes and that none of this money is given to their parents.

But there's a limit to the amount (at least to those not working), which would mean that once payments got to the £26k limit there would be no extra paid for any more children.

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

I appreciate how people that don't have children and are not entitled to TC must feel as I feel it is unfair that they too get let down by the state. However I did not plan to have children for the benefit money they bring in baring in mind that children are not free and the money does go on there care. Anybody who is entitled to anything will claim it is human nature and why not? Others will! I appreciate what people are saying but I would like to clear one thing! My partner works 40+ hours a week and I would also be better off not working however I do get up at 6am 3 mornings a week and I do go out to work because that is what I was taught. Of course I want nice things and I want my children to have nice things also which is why I do go out to work so I can provide these nice things for them (although yes i get £600 a Month TC And about £188 a month CB). Im lucky im good with money as this keeps our outgoing low however we are saving for ours and our childrens future.

scootw1

zagfles wrote: »

But there's a limit to the amount (at least to those not working), which would mean that once payments got to the £26k limit there would be no extra paid for any more children.

I believe the £26K limit does not include child benefit? Can anyone confirm this?

MissMoneypenny

zagfles wrote: »

The vast majority of the taxes being paid in 30-40 years time will be paid by the children of today and the children yet to be born.

The ironic things is, many of these children (if they work) will have to pay off the countries debts caused in part, to their own parents claiming to raise them! They will also have to work longer to do this!

zagfles wrote: »

On average people of working age subsidise both children and pensioners through the tax and benefit system, this cross-generational subsidy is built into the system.

I think we both know that some able bodied of working age, don't work. Then there are others (some parents) who take more, or nearly as much as the taxes they pay, back in their welfare claims.

zagfles wrote: »

Yet you get hypocrites who benefitted from this cross-generational subsidy as children, and will benefit again as pensioners, but who whinge about providing the subsidy when they're working.

That's what happens when you make it easier to claim state pensions and invent new wefare payments for those that didn't provide for their own old age. Only 30 years needed for a full state pension instead of 39 and 44 years, was madness. Bus passes at 60 should also be stopped too. Paying welfare claiming parents extra tax credits for every child they had, is madness too. No wonder the last government ran up so much debt to the country - the figures never added up and they were spending more than they had coming in!

Pensions and parents claiming welfare for their children, are still the biggest drain on the welfare bill. Raising the pension age to 68 was a good move to cut the pension bill and now we need to tackle parents who keep having children they can't afford/are unwilling to work enough hours to keep. Not paying the childs welfare payments in cash to these parents, would be a start.

zagfles wrote: »

but you get the same people whinging about supporting a large family on IS as a smaller family earning £50k+.

We will get complaints from the pensioners' who didn't provide for themselves in their old age and the parents who decide to have lots of children, but can't afford then without welfare money. They are two sides of the same coin.

The bottom line is that generous welfare days are over for the newly created "entilted to" class that sprung up over the last decade. We never had the money to foot that massive welfare bill and now all those debts have to be paid off.

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

All I hear is alot of people telling me I should not get top ups because I work well I can say that if we got no top ups we would just about survive with our kids so there it is I could support the children I chose to have without these benefits. However I am entitled to these benefits so I claim them. I have just realised I dont claim all the benefits I am entitled too which are disability benefits as I work and although it would only be a small amount it is not required. However the tax credits I do receive do help us with a "quality" of life.

BaconandEggs

What are the criteria which determine Tax Credit payments?
What is the household income threshold for this?
Someone told me that they claimed Tax credits and Child benefit and they are earning the same as me. However, when I put our details into the benefits calculator on MSE, it tells us we are not elligible to anything. Have the criteria recently changed?

Edit: the calculator DID say we may be entitles to TC, but that it is not able to calculate this.

mynameistallulah

Mumto3cheekymonkeys wrote: »

Because I am entitled to them! Do you or have you ever claimed them? and with regards to housing I am not in a council house I live in a house I am buying and I provide a service by renting out my other property to a homeless family! And yes before you ask I do pay tax on it!

This is the problem with this country, the sense of "entitlement" demonstrated by people like you. Whatever happened to self sufficiency?

Mumto3cheekymonkeys

I am alot more self sufficient then others! My partner used to work a well paid job £51,000 per year he was earning half of which the taxman took. We were not planning on having another baby (my coil was not properly fitted) and we could not go through with a termination not long after we had our second child my partner lost his job. He got a "get by" job until something came up in his field this job was not as well paid yet we were told by HV we could get this and that. Recession hit and there are alot more qualified people then him in his chosen path so he has a job that doesnt pay as well and we are topped up with benefits that help us! Have you ever been entitled to benefits?