Don't cut up your chip n pin card

dealer_wins

I may be being totally stupid here, but surely if there is a dispute and the card's chip keeps details of transactions made on it, then this would instantly resolve whether or not the card was used or not, and instantly resolve the dispute?

System

dealer_wins wrote: »

I may be being totally stupid here, but surely if there is a dispute and the card's chip keeps details of transactions made on it, then this would instantly resolve whether or not the card was used or not, and instantly resolve the dispute?

Yes thats right but the banks tell you to destroy your card. If you destroy your card then you don't have the transaction details stored on the chip.

What the OP is saying is if you are the victim of card fraud do not cut up your card as you may need the chip as evidence

meer53

goater78 wrote: »

I don't think this is true. From what they were saying on the program if your card has been copied correctly then the banks transaction details state that your actual card was used to make the transaction. Even when it wasn't your card that does this.

The only thing that can prove that your card didn't make the transaction is the chip on your card. If you destroy your card then you lose this evidence and you won't win any appeal.

They had a few experts on the program explaining this.

I've spent the last 18 years working in the fraud department of a bank. I've never requested a card to be returned in connection with a counterfeit card case. All the information we need is logged on the system when the transaction is made.

If the transaction shows as chip read, then it's not a counterfeit card, the fraudsters havent got around to producing a counterfeit card with a working chip.

Nilrem

meer53 wrote: »

If the transaction shows as chip read, then it's not a counterfeit card, the fraudsters havent got around to producing a counterfeit card with a working chip.

That's what I thought, the chips have yet to be compromised AFAIK.
However that doesn't rule out all kinds of fraud, but does tend to make it much more likely the fraud was at least partly helped by the user being less careful than they should have been with the card/pin.

System

meer53 wrote: »

I've spent the last 18 years working in the fraud department of a bank. I've never requested a card to be returned in connection with a counterfeit card case. All the information we need is logged on the system when the transaction is made.

If the transaction shows as chip read, then it's not a counterfeit card, the fraudsters havent got around to producing a counterfeit card with a working chip.

I know nothing about this, all I know is based on the TV program that was on Monday!

The case on Monday involved a woman who had been conned of £17k, she had never lost her card or given it to anyone. However while she was at work someone went to the bank and used a card to withdraw £17k from her bank. The banks system logged a transaction to say that her card had been used to withdraw the money.

However she was adament that she had never lost her card or given it to anyone. She had evidence that she was in work when the transactions were being placed.

They had an expert on (some doctor) who said that it was now possible for fraudsters to cloan a cards chip. The only way to prove her card hadn't been used to withdraw the money was to check the chip on her card (which she had destroyed).

If you say that all this is rubbish then thats fair enough, however although I am pretty much certain you are an honest poster I would prefer to take the advice from the TV program (and associated experts) as opposed to someone on an internet forum. Therefore if I am ever defrauded I will not be destroying my card!

Of course people are free to do what they like but I would watch the program it was very interesting

cherie1122

My debit card was used fraudulently in February this year and when I spoke to a member of the Bank's Fraud Team he told me to destroy my card. The bank also cancelled it and sent me a new one.

If it happens again I won't be destroying it so quickly though. I watched the programme on TV and it was quite alarming.

meer53

goater78 wrote: »

I know nothing about this, all I know is based on the TV program that was on Monday!

The case on Monday involved a woman who had been conned of £17k, she had never lost her card or given it to anyone. However while she was at work someone went to the bank and used a card to withdraw £17k from her bank. The banks system logged a transaction to say that her card had been used to withdraw the money.

However she was adament that she had never lost her card or given it to anyone. She had evidence that she was in work when the transactions were being placed.

They had an expert on (some doctor) who said that it was now possible for fraudsters to cloan a cards chip. The only way to prove her card hadn't been used to withdraw the money was to check the chip on her card (which she had destroyed).

If you say that all this is rubbish then thats fair enough, however although I am pretty much certain you are an honest poster I would prefer to take the advice from the TV program (and associated experts) as opposed to someone on an internet forum. Therefore if I am ever defrauded I will not be destroying my card!

Of course people are free to do what they like but I would watch the program it was very interesting

The woman may have been at work when the money was withdrawn but where was her card ? It's quite common to have fraud where cards are used by someone known to the victim and then replaced. I've seen this hundreds of times.

What i'm saying isn't that the programme was a load of rubbish, i've watched some of it but i can't stand Dominic Littlewood :rotfl:
But that each case of fraud is throughly investigated by the card issuer and as Barclays didn't change their decision, even after they were aware of the BBC's interest, it tells me a lot about what they thought had happened.

You don't need a card and chip to check what transactions have been made, the card issuer has all this information already. Thats why banks ask you to destroy your card. Until i see a counterfeit chip in a card i'll stick to my theory ! Which will probably be the same as Barclays. If the Police thought there was a case then they would have investigated it too.

System

meer53 wrote: »

The woman may have been at work when the money was withdrawn but where was her card ? It's quite common to have fraud where cards are used by someone known to the victim and then replaced. I've seen this hundreds of times.

What i'm saying isn't that the programme was a load of rubbish, i've watched some of it but i can't stand Dominic Littlewood :rotfl:
But that each case of fraud is throughly investigated by the card issuer and as Barclays didn't change their decision, even after they were aware of the BBC's interest, it tells me a lot about what they thought had happened.

You don't need a card and chip to check what transactions have been made, the card issuer has all this information already. Thats why banks ask you to destroy your card. Until i see a counterfeit chip in a card i'll stick to my theory ! Which will probably be the same as Barclays. If the Police thought there was a case then they would have investigated it too.

But the argument was that she couldn't check where her card was as the only definitive proof of whether the card was used in the transaction was in the chip on the card which she had destroyed.

Would you agree that if a chip could be cloned then the only evidence that your card wasn't used to make the transaction rests in the chip in your card?

If you agree that then its only sensible to follow the programs advice which is don't destroy your card. It just seems like common sense to keep whatever evidence you have in one piece

Incidentally i hate that Dom guy as well.

meer53

Why couldn't she check where her card was ? That makes me even more suspicious.

If a transaction shows on the CC issuers records as swiped, and you deny that transaction, then the bank will treat the transaction as fraud and you will be refunded. These transactions obviously wouldn't show on the chip on your card but you would still be refunded for them. The CC issuer won't ask for the card to check this.

If the CC issuer has evidence that the transaction was chip read, then the genuine card must have been used. At the moment, a chip can't be cloned so this "experts" advice can be taken with a pinch of salt. I'd rather follow my banks advice. I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

blondie7

Im surprised they can walk into a bank and withdraw that amount, if I wanted that amount from my bank I would have to order it, I also have to take 2 forms of ID.

What about cctv in the branch.