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Private education for lower/middle income families.
Comments
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See, I would expect class sizes at a private school to be more impressive than that...I teach English in a state school and the most I've got in a KS3 class is 27 (and most are around 25), but my biggest GCSE class is 21 and my other GCSE class is 18. There is one GCSE class that is only 16. I know this is probably not typical of most state schools though...
I would too. My daughter's class is 13. However, the important number is really the child:adult ratio. If it's a large class then I'd expect more teachers or TAs to up the support ratio.
The class sizes at senior school age can depend on the popularity of the subject. As I recall, my Classics class consisted of 3 pupils - at a state school.0 -
No-one said ALL parents struggle-or trim the budget in other areas to afford fees -but a sizeable proportion DO ! I'm not sure why you are struggling with that concept.
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I'm not struggling with that concept at all. In fact I said exactly the same thing in my post (second paragraph-sorry, but it won't let me multi-quote).0 -
pinkclouds wrote: »I would too. My daughter's class is 13. However, the important number is really the child:adult ratio. If it's a large class then I'd expect more teachers or TAs to up the support ratio.
The class sizes at senior school age can depend on the popularity of the subject. As I recall, my Classics class consisted of 3 pupils - at a state school.
When my son was a primary school then the largest class size we encountered was 15 and that was with a main teacher and 2 teaching assistants per class....
Next year once GCSE's start then class sizes will fall again as they will be split again into set ability rather than mixed ability...and like the example of classics that you pointed out I believe that there will be in the region of 7 doing music..an option my son is taking and no more than 16 in his geography group...
there are parents at our school with the flash lifestyles....and also those on much more modest incomes....we've been very lucky...and were awarded a small scholarship to reflect our sons ability...not a huge amount and in honesty it probably represents a little less than 10% of the total fees...he also had to take an entrance exam but whilst the school do take the results into account they are by no means as selective as other independant schools we looked at whilst choosing our sons education....we did infact choose the school that acknowledged his ability via a scholarship over the more selective independant school that offered us a higher bursary based upon our financial postion.
Private education isnt for everyone...I know some very academically bright children who get very good results via the state system....but I do value the private education I received, in turn it was something that was important for me to pass on to my child....a good education can set a child up for life...
People earn a living and its then their choice how they spend their money...we earn a modest income and the £11k we spend annually on education has now just become part of our household expenditure...in doing it we probably have sacrificed a couple of house moves and perhaps we dont change our car every couple of years but we have been happy with our decisions....frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!
2017 toiletries challenge 179 out 145 in ...£18.64 spend0 -
You may not think the class sizes are impressive....but consistantly the school my son attends has far better results than the national average...
The results the school produces are exceptionally better than our LEA results so in our case local authority state schools were not really competative when looking at the achievable results...the area in which we live has poor results,which was major factor to consider when choosing schooling, even our best perfoming state school fell lots short of the independant one we eventually chose
We paid a registration fee of £14 for D of E and a one off payment for CCF of £30 to cover admin/equipment...any activity organised as part of either has costs but so far this year these have been kept to a minimum ...from memory I think its been in the region of £20 for a weekend camp ...so nowhere near the £500 your stepdaughters school quoted.
I know, it's crazy! It's because they were taking them to some fancy activity centre instead of just camping in the wilds...but even so.
I completely believe that your child's school did better than the surrounding state schools, but just wanted to point out that this is not the case with every private school (my non-selective state school got 98% A* - C incl. English and Maths last summer, a result on par with if not better than the most expensive private schools...our local private school got 95%) so it is important to do your research. As I'm sure the OP's friend will anyway
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Private education isnt for everyone...I know some very academically bright children who get very good results via the state system....but I do value the private education I received, in turn it was something that was important for me to pass on to my child....a good education can set a child up for life...
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A lot of the research shows overwhelmingly that a naturally bright/academic child will generally do well wherever they are - it is the slightly less able who will see more of a difference from smaller class sizes, better resources, etc - all the things you get in a private school (I WON'T include 'better teaching' in that because it is absolutely not the case).
The statement I've put in bold though really gets my back up - the implication that the only 'good' education is a private one. You see this a lot from people who went to private school themselves, probably because they haven't had any other experience, which is fair enough. My OH is the same, he wants to send our children to private school even when I point out that locally, there are state schools performing better than the private school!
Anyway, sorry for taking the thread off topic...I'll stop ranting now!0 -
Whether I have discussed finances with friends who also happened to be the parents of fellow pupils -well what do you think? Do YOU know which of your friends are comfortable and which ones struggle to pay school fees -work overtime, forego foreign holidays, drive an old banger etc.
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No I don't. Which is why I didn't say...My son was educated privately from year 8 to GCSEs and the majority of parents were making serious sacrifices to afford fees.
...because that tends to suggest that you do know.0 -
A lot of the research shows overwhelmingly that a naturally bright/academic child will generally do well wherever they are - it is the slightly less able who will see more of a difference from smaller class sizes, better resources, etc - all the things you get in a private school (I WON'T include 'better teaching' in that because it is absolutely not the case).
The statement I've put in bold though really gets my back up - the implication that the only 'good' education is a private one. You see this a lot from people who went to private school themselves, probably because they haven't had any other experience, which is fair enough. My OH is the same, he wants to send our children to private school even when I point out that locally, there are state schools performing better than the private school!
Anyway, sorry for taking the thread off topic...I'll stop ranting now!
where in any of my posts on this topic in the thread have I given the implication that only a good education is a private one...???
Thats simply not the case....
Putting the comment back into the context in which it was meant when I wrote the paragraph....you will see that I started it by saying "private education isnt for everyone.....a good education can set a child up for life....I have not specified or quantified that that education should be private or state funded....you have formed that conclusion Daisie....frugal October...£41.82 of £40 food shopping spend for the 2 of us!
2017 toiletries challenge 179 out 145 in ...£18.64 spend0 -
This may be obvious, but when you compare the performance of schools you need to take into account whether the school is selective or not. Most private schools are selective at secondary level ie you need to pass an entrance exam to get in, clearly it would be ridiculous to compare their raw results with those of a non selective state school.
There are other measures such as CVA (contextual value added) scores which give an indication of how much the school adds given the starting ability of the pupils, but most private schools don't seem to publish these figures so it's hard to compare.
When we looked into this, a local selective private school had an entrance exam similar to the old 11+, ie pupils had to be in the top 25% or so academically to get in. But if you compared their results to the state schools in the area taking out the lowest 75% of grades, their results were worse. Not a completely scientific comparison, but it gives a far better indication than comparing raw results.
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where in any of my posts on this topic in the thread have I given the implication that only a good education is a private one...???
Thats simply not the case....
Putting the comment back into the context in which it was meant when I wrote the paragraph....you will see that I started it by saying "private education isnt for everyone.....a good education can set a child up for life....I have not specified or quantified that that education should be private or state funded....you have formed that conclusion Daisie....
Well, you did mention that your own experience of private education was so good that you wanted to pass it on to your children and then proceeded to say that 'a good education can set a child up for life', so I assumed the two statements were connected. Sorry if I misunderstood!0 -
I'm always amazed people can afford it. £11k per year is over £900 per month. We don't have that sort of 'disposable' income once mortgage and bills are paid. And that's with a low mortage and hubby a HR tax payer.People earn a living and its then their choice how they spend their money...we earn a modest income and the £11k we spend annually on education has now just become part of our household expenditure...in doing it we probably have sacrificed a couple of house moves and perhaps we dont change our car every couple of years but we have been happy with our decisions....0
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