Omega Kitchens

MattJH

Haha, I work in the I.T. industry and this discussion reminds me of an iPhone versus Android or iPhone versus Windows Phone 7argument. Not only do people appear to be passionate about their opinions but fromwhat I have seen here there won’t be a clear winner for all people.

If we look at iPhones I think this would be like your German kitchen. It appears there is a focus on the engineering quality and there is an expense associated with that. Not everyone will care for the nuances associated with that and will therefore opt for an alternative. For me, you then have your Android which is much like your mass produced, easily accessible kitchen from your Wickes or Howdens. Nothing wrong with that if you make sure you customise it to your requirements and select carefully. Finally you have your WindowsPhone 7, nicely designed but not perhaps to the quality of your iPhone (yet)and something in the middle ground between the other two. Anyway, that is theanalogy I am going to work with for the moment J

In all seriousness, I have now read this thread a couple oftimes and have yet to decipher what the main differences really are to the enduser (not the designer or fitter) between a German and UK made kitchen. Yes, it sounds like there are more options, sizes, and better ways (subjective) of manufacturing.But to the person going into the showroom, the consumer who browses through numerous brochures comparing all the different options, you just see a style that you like the look of and ask a kitchen designer to come up with something that will fit into and work in your specific space.

Will I really care if there are more sizes available? I shouldn’tthink so, surely that is a potential headache that a designer would need to consider? Do I really need even more shades of colours to choose from aselection that is already pretty extensive? For some people that may be an advantage but I bet in most cases that is pretty irrelevant. Apparently thevast machines in Germany create a better quality kitchen. Perhaps so, but justsaying it is “better quality” is subjective too, unless you can explicitly state what makes them superior? Is the material likely to last longer, do they fit together better, do they have some kind of special feature that isn’t available in the UK version? And finally value is an irrelevant point if they are not cheaper than the UK version, being comparable isn’t an advantage.

As I said originally, I am quite happy to select analternative to Omega if there really are fundamental issues with them. This is why I raised the question in the first place, in an attempt to gain insight from more people, those that have more experience in this area than I. What I would like people to do though is to give me the benefits of alternative manufacturers that are benefits to me, not the designer, not the connoisseur or the enthusiast. A normal person that is looking to install a mid-range kitchen. And if there are real issues with going with an Omega, how will they affect me? Again, not the fitter, designer or whatever, but the person who has had thekitchen fitted?

Thanks for all the advice and conversation, I have found it enlightening and entertaining at the same time J

MattJH

Hejo wrote: »

Bet you never thought kitchens could be so controversial eh!
We are very happy with the colour we chose. It was a major departure for us as the previous design we had was dark traditional oak, and I know exactly how confused you are feeling now! Our kitchen is 4.5m long. We did the same, black ovens and mixed wood worktop broke up the white and we think it looks great. For us cream was the safer choice that others were pushing us to, but it didnt feel right, so thats why we went back to white. Of course it helps that we all agreed on the colour! We spent a lot of time googling images of kitchens which helped us make up our mind too.
Re flat pack vs rigid, I would agree that it does depend on the fitter. Ours was great and did it in 3 1/2 days and I cant tell the difference between this and the rigid ones we looked at.

PS Majjie - I spent a couple of evenings perusing your blog, I think its great!

It has certainly been an eye opener. Thanks for your replies, they have been most useful. Now I will need to direct the wife to this thread and see if it has helped with our decision! I get the feeling we won't see eye to eye on white versus cream so may need to find something off white that isn't so "creamy". That may be more difficult...

Hejo

Good luck, its funny how deciding on a place to store the cornflakes can be so much hassle!

akitchendesigner

Matt

Let me give you some benefits of ranges of German kitchens we work with that you wont find on most English kitchens. I can't vouch for all German kitchens being able to offer this, but most good ones can -

Base unit carcase heights 795mm vs 720mm on almost all English kitchens. 10% larger.
Carcase and shelf edges edged with ABS not PVC. ABS is used to make car bumpers - PVC isn't. ABS is far more durable
All base units supplied with 2 shelves instead of 1 as standard
All visible sides matched to door for no-extra charge irrespective of door colour. No need for plant on panels.
Carcase edges matched to door colour and finish for no extra charge
Ability to configure appliance housings to ANY combination of appliances and position appliances to a height convenient to you WITHOUT the need to use fillers. This makes the kitchen easier to use AND no space is lost in fillers.
Ability to specify 3 standard plinth heights if necessary
Ability to specify base units in sizes from 15-120 cm. This is often limited to 900 or 100cm on English kitchens.
Wall units in sizes from 27 - 93cm
Wall unit depth is 360mm as standard. Most English suppliers are in the 320-340mm range. You will get full size dinner plates in wall units.
Standard height (660mm) wall units supplied with 2 shelves as standard.
All units with 2 doors are supplied without centre posts. This allows easier installation of internal accessories and easier access to contents of cabinets.
Base units supplied in 3 depths at no extra charge and with additional depth for a nominal extra charge.
All units across the range can be modified if necessary in height, width and depth without compromising appearance.


I think I can go on for a while, but I hope you can see how these little details give you more for your money.

CKdesigner

evokit wrote: »

Ck

I have 3 uk suppliers that offer all this, and are used by the high end bespoke kitchen companies and have seen there product so many times in all the kitchen mags like beautiful kitchens, kit bed n bathroom (course i dont charge as much as the ones in the mags).
but there are a few companies around that do this to a very high standard, grain matching, colour matching, veneer, gloss, matt, satin lacquer finishes and any colour giving 1000's of options and lots of handleless options also. but the carcass is made to what you want width depth height etc.
And all is uk

Hi Evokit

As I said I would love to do an English made product that does all that Schueller does for us and our customers, do our bit to boost the UK economy rather than import from abroad. Please let me know who these makes are as I would like to get in touch with them myself. Send the information in PM if you prefer.

Could I also ask you Evokit do you supply kitchens and have a showroom?

Thanks

CK

CKdesigner

Kitchen_DesignR wrote: »

I'd like to know how this works, from what you written I could have a single oven tower with the height variable at 890mm from the floor or 900 or 905 or 907 without any fillers ?
Obviously this is possible with custom made doors but what what cost ?

Hi Kitchen DesignR

I can't speak for Akitchendesigner but this is perfectly possible to do with Schueller, to get the oven at exactly the right height for the customer. There is a smallish surcharge applied as it does go outside of standard. Also unlike most English makes Schueller require the make and model number for the appliance going in to the housings, so they can make the apertures exactly the right size for the appliances. This becomes particularly useful with integrated refrigeration as the unit is made to measure rather than a generic housing supplied with a couple of loose shelves for the fitter to place onsite.

CK

CKdesigner

Hi Matt

Actually you aren't far wrong with your analogy with mobile phones etc. They are all reasonable at making phone calls and checking your email on the go. The problem with kitchens though in terms of build quality is that they all look good when first installed whatever you spend, assuming its been fitted well, but what really sets them apart is what they look like in 5, 10, 15 or even 20 years time.

As I think has been touched on before though what is actually more important than what brand of furniture you chose is the quality of your designer and how they interpret what you want and make the most of your space. Its all down to knowledge.

CK

akitchendesigner

Kitchen DesignR - You are spot on there. You can have the oven where you like it in modular increments for NO extra charge or at 901mm if you like for about £20 per unit. That's pennies really. You aren't talking bespoke kitchen territory. Appliance model numbers need to be supplied to ensure perfect fit.

Schueller and most other good German suppliers are mass producers of kitchens but most incorporate the ability to provide immense flexibility for no or very little charge. I think this is precisely what CKDesigner and I have been banging on about. The attention to detail, flexibility and quality that most German supplier provide as standard is the preserve of rather high end English manufacturers (Roundhouse for instance comes to mind). I would rate these English manufacturers as pretty good but are really expensive - I sold a very contemporary silk matt lacquered kitchen on Monday quoting against Roundhouse for a very similar design and the cabinetry alone was about 30% cheaper and I think with higher overall attention to detail.

MattJH - your analogy about the phones is a good one so let me try and draw another one.

I think most people agree that Germans set the standard when it comes to well engineered cars. It is their engineering, quality standards and attention to detail that makes the difference. And I can assure you their approach to kitchens (and furniture manufacturing) is no different. I don't need to talk about where British car manufacturing is today. Jaguar/Land Rover/RR, Bentley, Mini and Aston Martin fly the flag for Britain today and they are doing a splendid job but realistically they are all marginal players in niche premium markets on the global stage and 3 of the above are German owned. That almost accurately reflects the kitchen market.

Ironically, most will also agree that Germans set the standards with appliance manufacturing too with BSH group and Miele. So why are we trying to kid ourselves that its 'different' with kitchens?

majjie

Hejo wrote: »

PS Majjie - I spent a couple of evenings perusing your blog, I think its great!

Thanks Hejo Glad you liked it.

I think this really has degenerated into a bun fight between kitchen suppliers now - my kitchen is better than yours.

Akitchendesigner is still trying to prove that German kitchens are better than English ones ... but he (I'm assuming he's a he - especially with that last reference to cars!) hasn't really addressed Matt's question about whether he could buy a better kitchen than Omega at a similar cost.

It's all a bit pointless - the Germans have perfected an extraordinarily complex modular system with an almost endless variety of unit sizes ... but I find it a lot easier to get a bespoke one, from a small business in the UK, at that sort of price (you certainly don't have to go to the big names). There's no intrinsic value in mass production and German kitchens are the same as everything else - some are better than others.

Going back to the original question!

I had a quick exchange of Tweets with Russ at Stuart Henry Kitchens on the Wirral. He's been supplying Sheraton, Chippendale and Omega kitchens for the past five years and he reckons that their high gloss doors are excellent quality. They do have slightly less size options than Sheraton - but if you're happy with your design Matt, then it's a bit irrelevant. Russ is an independent retailer and he's as happy with his choice of Omega kitchens as CK and the others are with their German ones.

What I did notice was that Hejo, above, chose white doors but teamed them with black ovens and WOOD (or wood effect?) worktops. Adding wood to the white will warm it up and make it look less clinical and cold.

Matt originally said that he was thinking of black worktops. I think that without the wood a white kitchen might look quite cool ... depending on what colour that glass splashback is.

For the cream choice, I think it depends on what colour the cream is. Some creams are more ivory than buttercream and I think that could look good in a kitchen with black worktops.

Hejo's suggestion of trawling the internet for pictures is an excellent one. Print a few of your favourites out and see if any of them grow on you.

Don't know if that helps ...

namecheck

I have just had the "which colour to choose" dilemma.

A lot of people seemed to be pushing me towards gloss but I have gone for matt white and a pale granite worktop (as the room needs to be kept as light as possible).

While all you kitchen professionals are still about (hopefully), can anyone give me some advice re undermount sinks please?

I'm trying to choose between Kohler Ice Rock stainless steel and Schock - anything for or against either of these? We are in a hard water if that makes any difference.