Omega Kitchens

MattJH

akitchendesigner wrote: »

Are you sure you weren't shown a Chippendale and supplied an Omega kitchen? Its the same doors kitchen except one is manufactured flat packed and other rigid. And a number of naughty dealers indulge is this.

As CKDesigner said, its a fairly basic kitchen as if you are at that end of the market, Hacker/Schueller/Bauformat are better products.

Thanks for the reply. Could you clarify for me why youbelieve the German kitchens to be superior? What would I be missing out on bygoing with Omega? And what makes it 'fairly basic' anyway?

Cheers

MattJH

majjie wrote: »

Well, as CKdesigner knows, I'm a kitchen designer that doesn't share this obsession with German kitchens ... and I don't have anything against flat packs either.

Go back ten years and there would have been major distinctions - but it's not the same today. The only advantages I can see are that some German manufacturers make some good looking worktops to match their units ... and our perceived impression that the Germans are efficient! Anyone got any advance on those two?

When it comes to flat packs - their quality has improved enormously, since the days when everyone avoided them if they could. I know several fitters who prefer to work with flat packs because they're easy to modify - and a good fitter won't take much longer to fit flat packs than rigid units. It's a bit different if you're fitting it yourself.

As for Omega being no better than Wickes or B&Q, I'd say that's coming from the mouth of someone who hasn't tried to design a kitchen with them! Omega are miles ahead of the other two - simply because they have a much better choice of unit sizes. Give me a flat pack with a good choice of sizes any day, over a rigid carcasse with very little choice of units (not that Wickes kitchens are rigid - they're flat packs too).

If you don't want to spend a fortune on your kitchen, choose a good designer and (very importantly) a good fitter ... and a kitchen with a reasonable choice of unit sizes ... and you're laughing. Omega kitchens are fine.

Note: Oh and just a technical note - Chippendale kitchens are flat packs too - it's Omega's Sheraton range that has rigid carcasses. Come to think of it - it might be Chippendale I was thinking of - with the much better range of sizes - I'll have to check. Omega are still fine, though.

Thanks for the information. A lot of what you have said washighlighted by the kitchen designer/fitter I went to see. He didn’t mentionanything about German kitchens but then I guess he doesn’t sell them, I didn’task and therefore he wouldn’t. I am glad to hear someone else say that Omegaare fine, particularly from someone that has fit them. I don’t want to spend afortune but then I don’t necessarily want the cheapest either. If there arecompelling reasons to go with another kitchen range from another manufacturerthen I would be open to that. However, at the moment they are all beginning tolook the same to me regardless of what showroom I go to. I am not quiteunderstanding what makes one kitchen superior to another other than whetherthey are flat pack or not. So long as the fitter puts them together well Iwould have thought they should be fine?

majjie

MattJH wrote: »

Thanks for the information. A lot of what you have said washighlighted by the kitchen designer/fitter I went to see. He didn’t mentionanything about German kitchens but then I guess he doesn’t sell them, I didn’task and therefore he wouldn’t. I am glad to hear someone else say that Omegaare fine, particularly from someone that has fit them. I don’t want to spend afortune but then I don’t necessarily want the cheapest either. If there arecompelling reasons to go with another kitchen range from another manufacturerthen I would be open to that. However, at the moment they are all beginning tolook the same to me regardless of what showroom I go to. I am not quiteunderstanding what makes one kitchen superior to another other than whetherthey are flat pack or not. So long as the fitter puts them together well Iwould have thought they should be fine?

Well, I haven't actually fitted one myself you understand! I just design.

You have a point about them all looking the same. There are differences, though. Given the choice, I would always go for thicker than 5-8mm backs to the base units, pvc edging to the carcasses and colour matching of the carcasse to the doors ... all of which Omega has!

Factory fitted glue and dowel joints will be stronger than fitter fitted cam and dowel ... but most cabinets don't fall apart when they fail ... it's other things like the hinges and drawer runners that go. Omega use GRASS for those - which several cabinetmakers I know reckon are better than Blum.

evokit

Pre built units will be stronger as Majjie says, the other bonus is the time saving and less chance of snags.
If you found an independant none of your units would need adjust as they 'should' be able to build them to the size width that you need so you just lay the units out.
Also for quality it's the door that can makes a big difference.
there is a reason why there is a cost difference.
Dont get pulled in by the glits of a showroom either, for instance kutchenhaus, stunning showrooms, but alot of cheap pvc edged doors and you will end up paying an Audi price for a Ford
MATTJH - if your looking for a gloss door it would be worth the little few quid to go lacquer rather than foil or vinly, better finish, better shine and will last you soooooooo much longer.

CKdesigner

Dear Matt & Majjie

Why do I think German kitchens are far superior to English ones?

I have been a kitchen designer for more years now than I care to remember and of which the last 11 years the other half and I have had our own independent kitchen specialist business. I mainly worked with Mereway as the only English made kitchen in depth and have also visited the factories and showrooms of other English brands of which Omega is one.

I would so love to sell an English made kitchen but as far as I am concerned none in the middle market English makes come up to the standards of Schueller, our chosen German manufacturer. I have always said if there were an English make that offered all that Schueller do, quality, choice, customer service and reliability then we would use them! But IMHO there simply isn't. Being an English person I find this really frustrating, why can't we produce a kitchen as good as the Germans? After all its just a chipboard box - isn't it!

Majjie, you mention choice, how many doors in different colours do Omega offer? 30, 40 maybe 50. I'm a bit sad, I counted up all the doors and colours available the other day in the Schueller standard range only, and they have 290 to choose from! Or if we look at unit sizes to choose from, let's take the usual 3 drawer base unit, (small top drawer and 2 pan drawers) I don't know about Omega but I can't imagine it would be much different to Mereway, this unit is available in the following widths - 50, 60, 80, 90 & 100 cm's. Where as from Schueller it is available in - 30, 40, 45, 50, 60, 80, 90, 100 & 120 cm's. Then it is also available in the following carcase depths - 35, 46, 56 & 66 cm's, and 3 different heights. Not only all this but many doors in the Schueller range they will make to bespoke sizes as well.

Quality of manufacture - Sorry Majjie you say you don't think there is much difference in quality between a well put together flat pack and a rigid kitchen. This may well be the case comparing an English made rigid kitchen but I think this is very different to a Schueller unit. Just the sheer scale of machines and equipment in these German kitchen factories is worlds apart from English manufacturing. Generally the Germans know how to mass produce a quality product to much higher standard than any English factory.

Value - So often customers walk in our showrooms expecting us to be much more expensive than DIY stores. I'm not going to say we are cheaper or the same money, but on many occasions I have priced kitchens against Wickes and been slightly cheaper! This though is all very subjective as it is virtually impossible with kitchens to provide like for like quotes. What Schueller does give us though is a huge range of products at an enormous range of prices that allow us to compete with complete kitchen prices from £5k to £10k to kitchens up to £100k!

In summary - I believe if there was an English manufacturer that could do all that Schueller does for us then we would use them but unfortunately we have to put quality and value over patriotism!

CK

evokit

Ck

I have 3 uk suppliers that offer all this, and are used by the high end bespoke kitchen companies and have seen there product so many times in all the kitchen mags like beautiful kitchens, kit bed n bathroom (course i dont charge as much as the ones in the mags).
but there are a few companies around that do this to a very high standard, grain matching, colour matching, veneer, gloss, matt, satin lacquer finishes and any colour giving 1000's of options and lots of handleless options also. but the carcass is made to what you want width depth height etc.
And all is uk

majjie

evokit wrote: »

... if your looking for a gloss door it would be worth the little few quid to go lacquer rather than foil or vinly, better finish, better shine and will last you soooooooo much longer.

Actually, that's very true - I was so focussed on the carcasses, I was forgetting about the doors.

Painted/lacquered gloss doors are best - but they're likely to be quite a bit more expensive. I'd go for a high gloss laminate second, if they've got the edge looking good - and a high gloss vinyl, only if I'd seen a few doors and they look ok when angled against the light (and don't use your kettle under the wall units!). I haven't looked closely at Omega's high gloss doors, I'm afraid.

@CK
We've had this argument before!

I grant you that some German brands have a very wide choice of unit sizes, but I haven't found using UK units a problem - as long as they have a decent choice. It's only the likes of Howdens, Wickes and IKEA I have trouble with. (And it's not because I don't know any better because I design bespoke kitchens too).

As for the choice of finishes; it's not important to the customer, as long as a UK manufacturer has what you want ... so it wouldn't be relevant to someone wanting a white or cream kitchen. And for me, I'd rather send customers to a showroom that has made to measure carcasses and buys in doors from a wide range of suppliers (but that's not relevant to Matt). As Evokit says, there are quite a few bespoke door manufacturers in the UK now, who can do any finish you like.

Your quality of manufacture evidence isn't all that convincing either. Perhaps we don't need huge amounts of machinery to make good quality kitchens!

akitchendesigner

majjie - You say you don't share an obsession about German kitchens. To be honest neither do I (in fact I retail a range of English kitchens too) and I can say fairly confident that neither does CKDesigner. Speaking for myself - I like quality well made products and I don't find I get that with most English kitchens.

Saying English kitchens 'aren't bad', is like saying a crutch is 'not bad'. Yes its better than being immobile but worse than a prosthetic leg.There is not bad and there is just that little bit better and that's what most German kitchens give you over most English kitchens. And if you can have a kitchen that's a 'little bit better' in every department for similar money, why wouldn't you want it?

You say you prefer the solid backs of English kitchens but go on to say that flat-packs don't fall apart. Can you then cast some light on exactly what value solid back kitchens add? I am sure you know that carcases that are screwed together have solid backs because its the back that is an integral part of the strength of the carcase. Without the back its about as rigid as a Weetabix box.

Sheraton have moved to a rigid (possibly dowelled and glued) carcase so in theory they can put in hardboard backs like German kitchens and it will have no impact on the strength of their units. I can't vouch for this, but I suspect they stick with their 5-8mm backs to feed the irrational demand that exists in Britain about having carcases with solid backs. I have been retailing German kitchens for years and I haven't seen or heard of a carcase crumble on us yet.

You also say that a choice of colours isn't relevant as long a customer get their white or cream. I beg to differ. Whites and creams form less than a quarter of what we sell and I'd confidently say that 75% of our clients who buy non-white or cream come to us thinking of a colour on the lines of the white and creams. The flexibility of being able to offer kitchen in ANY colour is one of the features of a quality German manufacturer and I can assure you we sell our fair share of kitchens in special colours. I think that's important when we have clients spending trusting us to make significant investments in their kitchens.

majjie

akitchendesigner wrote: »

Saying English kitchens 'aren't bad', is like saying a crutch is 'not bad'. Yes its better than being immobile but worse than a prosthetic leg.There is not bad and there is just that little bit better and that's what most German kitchens give you over most English kitchens. And if you can have a kitchen that's a 'little bit better' in every department for similar money, why wouldn't you want it?

Who said English kitchens "aren't bad"? I certainly didn't. I think they're great and I don't believe German kitchens are a little bit better in every department

akitchendesigner wrote: »

You say you prefer the solid backs of English kitchens but go on to say that flat-packs don't fall apart. Can you then cast some light on exactly what value solid back kitchens add? I am sure you know that carcases that are screwed together have solid backs because its the back that is an integral part of the strength of the carcase. Without the back its about as rigid as a Weetabix box.

Solid backs are important, not because they necessarily give any strength to the carcasse but because hardboard backs which aren't required for the rigidity of the carcasse tend to bow over the years and leave a gap at the back ... whether German or otherwise

akitchendesigner wrote: »

Sheraton have moved to a rigid (possibly dowelled and glued) carcase so in theory they can put in hardboard backs like German kitchens and it will have no impact on the strength of their units. I can't vouch for this, but I suspect they stick with their 5-8mm backs to feed the irrational demand that exists in Britain about having carcases with solid backs. I have been retailing German kitchens for years and I haven't seen or heard of a carcase crumble on us yet.

I don't think that demand is irrational - as I've detailed above. I suspect Omega use the same backs throughout because it makes their lives easier to use the same for all their ranges. And it's very rare to hear of a carcasse crumbling at all - German or otherwise

akitchendesigner wrote: »

You also say that a choice of colours isn't relevant as long a customer get their white or cream. I beg to differ. Whites and creams form less than a quarter of what we sell and I'd confidently say that 75% of our clients who buy non-white or cream come to us thinking of a colour on the lines of the white and creams. The flexibility of being able to offer kitchen in ANY colour is one of the features of a quality German manufacturer and I can assure you we sell our fair share of kitchens in special colours. I think that's important when we have clients spending trusting us to make significant investments in their kitchens.

I wouldn't presume to suggest that Matt's only choosing white or cream because he doesn't know any better - but perhaps you're right. IF he really does want white, though, then there's no advantage in having a wider choice.

I too can recommend a kitchen in any colour - from a UK manufacturer - it's not a unique feature of German kitchens. If you can do one in any colour at the same price as Omega - then that would be worth shouting about - but I'm doubting that you can.

I don't really care whether you sell German kitchens or not. I advise customers on what kitchens to buy (without actually selling them one!) and I'm not convinced that German kitchens are better than UK ones.

You'd be better addressing your remarks to Matt and telling him why a German kitchen would be better than an Omega one. Perhaps you could start by telling him why he shouldn't have white

Hejo

MattJH wrote: »

We are a family of four with small children, so no, it isn’tjust the two of us. In terms of going for white instead of beige, I assume youare happy with the decision still? If you don’t mind me asking, how large isthe length of your kitchen? We have one wall that is 7M of which there will bea section of about 4 floor to ceiling units. Again, I am not too worried aboutbeing ‘too white’, as it will be broken up by a couple of single ovens, theworktops (probably black), glass splash back and the other things in thekitchen. However, the wife is really concerned.

Thanks

Bet you never thought kitchens could be so controversial eh!
We are very happy with the colour we chose. It was a major departure for us as the previous design we had was dark traditional oak, and I know exactly how confused you are feeling now! Our kitchen is 4.5m long. We did the same, black ovens and mixed wood worktop broke up the white and we think it looks great. For us cream was the safer choice that others were pushing us to, but it didnt feel right, so thats why we went back to white. Of course it helps that we all agreed on the colour! We spent a lot of time googling images of kitchens which helped us make up our mind too.
Re flat pack vs rigid, I would agree that it does depend on the fitter. Ours was great and did it in 3 1/2 days and I cant tell the difference between this and the rigid ones we looked at.

PS Majjie - I spent a couple of evenings perusing your blog, I think its great!