Seller kept money. Lost £0000's. Nothing I can do?

antrobus

George_Michael wrote: »

Why?

Why what exactly?

JPMC is JPMorgan Chase & Co. It's not an unknown entity, it does exist, and it's not a secret. I thought it might be vaguely helpful to know that.

Not that it is of any help to the OP, who didn't use Paypal in the first place.

George_Michael

antrobus wrote: »

Why what exactly?

Sorry, maybe I should have been a bit more specific.

My comment "Why" was in response to your info about JPMC and the "Why" was why should GraceCourt bother looking at it as they are so Anti-Paypal (as can be seen from their many posts on the subject), as all they will say is thet the information that you gave is incorrect and that Paypal are acting illegally in the UK.

antrobus

George_Michael wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I should have been a bit more specific.

My comment "Why" was in response to your info about JPMC and the "Why" was why should GraceCourt bother looking at it as they are so Anti-Paypal (as can be seen from their many posts on the subject), as all they will say is thet the information that you gave is incorrect and that Paypal are acting illegally in the UK.

I'm reasonably certain that GraceCourt will take no notice whatsover of my post and will continue with their crusade. However this is a public forum, and thus the rest of the world might still find it slightly useful that the identity of JPMC isn't some deep dark secret.

GraceCourt

antrobus wrote: »

JPMC is JPMorgan Chase & Co.

George_Michael wrote: »

My comment "Why" was in response to your info about JPMC and the "Why" was why should GraceCourt bother looking at it as they are so Anti-Paypal (as can be seen from their many posts on the subject), as all they will say is thet the information that you gave is incorrect and that Paypal are acting illegally in the UK.

I wouldn't claim that "Payapal are acting illegally in the UK" because, if you took the trouble to read my posts and make any effort to try to understand them, you would comprehend my basic point, made time and time again, that PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie isn't incorporated in the UK and has no corporate presence in the UK!

If "JPMC" is indeed "J P Morgan Chase & Co", which of the eight companies listed at Companies House as being registered in the UK, with names commencing "J P Morgan Chase...", should legal process for "JPMC" be served on? Oh, and by the way... none of those eight is actually called "J P Morgan Chase & Co". So, despite the requirements of Regulations 6 and 7 of the Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008, made under Sections 82 to 85 of the Companies Act 2006, a member of the public still wouldn't know where to serve a Notice of claim... do you? If so, say so, and provide the company name and registered office address... because no-one else has, and at least one MSE member has commenced proceedings against the wrong company!

The difference between our respective positions on this matter is that I have been careful in every instance to quote the legal justification for my statements... I note that you have quoted none. I would welcome any substantive legal argument against any of my claims, or even any useful advice at all as to how one might obtain any confirmation or otherwise from PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie about these issues, iincluding why they publish a non-existent e-mail address for specific responses about Direct Debits: I have been completely unsuccessful in doing so over many weeks in a frustrating but vain effort to get beyond the cretins in their so-called Customer Service department.

The major problem with debating this subject with someone who has no understanding whatsoever of the legal issues is that they have no understanding whatsoever of the legal issues.

And, bearing in mind the further information about "J P Morgan Chase & Co" that I have now provided, i.e. that there is no such company (where have I heard that before?), the "rest of the world" must still regard the identity of "JPMC" as a deep dark secret...

Back to you, old sport... who is "JPMC" and what is the address of their registered office for service of legal process? Why does that entity not comply with the requirements of the Companies Act 2006? Or perhaps you'd like to ask a lawyer, or even "phone a friend"? :rotfl:

GraceCourt

George_Michael wrote: »

This is also confirmed by Trading Standards. (and also by many other consumer advice websites).

I can confirm it as well, and I agree without reservation.

But, sadly, a "trading name" is completely different from the name of the limited company, sole trader, or partnership that uses it, and your post demonstrates singularly that you don't understand even that basic fact. This is exactly what Trading Standards and those consumer advice web sites are trying to tell you, viz. that you have to sue the limited company itself, not a trading name, which is also why I pointed out in the first place that neither "JPMC" nor "Paypay Pte Ltd" actually exist!

You are actually providing the rationale for me making these points in the first place... i.e. unless the correct company name/name of sole trader/name of partnership is unambiguously identified, any member of the public is, as they say, "stuffed"!

peachyprice

GraceCourt wrote: »

So, despite the requirements of Regulations 6 and 7 of the Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008, made under Sections 82 to 85 of the Companies Act 2006, a member of the public still wouldn't know where to serve a Notice of claim... do you?

Well oscardog clearly does, but you seem to have conveniently avoided his/her posts confirming that they go to court in a couple of weeks :rotfl:

oscardog wrote: »

oh yes you can:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3692053

Paypal Europe UK ltd
Hotham House
1 Heron House
Richmond upon Thames
Surrey
TW9 1EJ

Alternatively:

Paypal (UK) Legal Dept
Whittaker House
Whitteker Avenue
Richmond Upon Thames
TW19 1EH

Apologies for continued posting off thread!!

TTFN

oscardog wrote: »

We are taking this way off thread but I myself have taken Paypal to court through small claims and the judge has agreed with there being a case to answer and the case goes to court in a couple of weeks.

As long as you have an address to serve the paperwork you can proceed.

Unless you still wish to argue when I have done exactly what you say is not possible and the sitting District Judge agrees with me.

pendulum

peachyprice wrote: »

Well oscardog clearly does, but you seem to have conveniently avoided his/her posts confirming that they go to court in a couple of weeks :rotfl:

I'd wait and see if oscardog is successful before using his case as evidence PayPal can be sued!

shaun_from_Africa

But, sadly, a "trading name" is completely different from the name of the limited company, sole trader, or partnership that uses it

I might be missing something, but what does this have to do with anything related to Paypal?
Paypal UK Ltd are not using a trading name but just their registered company name. (registered company No 05468033), and as such, suing them is no problem as they also have a registered address in the UK.

All of this info can easily be found on the Companies house website.

I'd wait and see if oscardog is successful before using his case as evidence PayPal can be sued!

Successful or not, it's still the case that a case can be brought against them, which is something that Gracecourt seems to think can't be done.

peachyprice

pendulum wrote: »

I'd wait and see if oscardog is successful before using his case as evidence PayPal can be sued!

At least oscardog has actually got as far as getting a court to accept the case, an impossiblity according to GraceCourt, obviously winning is something else entirely

GraceCourt

peachyprice wrote: »

At least oscardog has actually got as far as getting a court to accept the case, an impossiblity according to GraceCourt, obviously winning is something else entirely

Not impossible at all.. you can serve a notice of claim, whether a Part 27 CPR 1998 claim or otherwise, on any person (including incorporated companies) that you want.

But as you say, winning is something else, and if you sue a different company from the one against which you have a legal claim, you won't win.

All of the doubters on this thread seem very determined to completely ignore the fact that the company with which a Paypal customer/user has an enforceable contract (but no UK consumer rights) is PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, incorporated and registered in Luxembourg, not one of the three completely different UK companies registered in England) that just happen to have the word "Paypal" in their names. Anyone at all could quite legally register a company in England called "Paypal Transfers Ltd" or "Paypal Services Ltd", but it wouldn't make that new company liable for a Paypal user's claim against PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, any more than (for example) the Royal Bank of Scotland would be liable. It's a different company.

Period.

Read again all of the stuff mentioned above that emphasises making the claim against the correct defendant company. And weep. :rotfl: