Seller kept money. Lost £0000's. Nothing I can do?

Jimit

Hello all,

I have been following this site for some time. This is a bit of a extreme event to be marking my first but I am at my wits end and cannot walk away from such a loss. Id rather this not be my first post but anyway. I'd just like to say Hello!

Wristwatch trading has now been a hobby of mine for over a year, I have aIways liked watches and a chance purchase via eBay around a year ago, which led to a thrifty profit upon sale, gave me the trading bug which I have spent many a night on.

I have been steadily making varying profits on sales throughout the past year and found myself in a position to obtain my dream watch - a Rolex Submariner. The idea was to keep it for a while then try and trade it on.

I searched for 2 months to find the right deal. Weighing up the pros and cons of the different models, their ages and resale value. And where/how to buy. Then one morning a well priced watch located in the UK (most of my buying is from overseas) appeared for sale on the classified section of watchuseek.com. One of the leading Internet watch discussion sites.

To cut to the chase, I requested a meeting with the seller who declined claiming to be located in Edinburgh. (I am based in Oxfordshire) so, in the belief that I was fully protected against online fraud, !I agreed to transfer the money into the sellers bank on the understanding she would post the watch out on 'next day' delivery.

As many of my prior purchases had been from overseas, I had upgraded my bank current account at HSBC, paying a fee for advanced Internet fraud protection. However, on the day of sending the money I had to use my business account because I didn't have the login for my personal one with me.

The seller called themself Deborah Linch, the account was at Lloyds TSB. I obtained a phone number for her and postal address (edinborough) but all communication carried on via email due to ease of use. Their email was a google account which was not uncommon on the classifieds. I had certain worries but I figured no one would be able to pull fraud after giving their bank account details, in their name, having had to provide ID to open the account. And thought the bank would recover the funds easily, (much the same as Paypal would) if the deal went sour.

I sent several thousand pounds.

After 6 days - no watch. I had had ok communication from the seller but they claimed a complicated set of circumstances (family member taken I'll) I asked for a refund then never heard from the seller again.

That was on Saturday, two weeks ago. I reported the situation to !watchuseek.com and requested help. They tell me it looks like fraud as the seller had only joined a week ago yet had listed 6 Rolex for sale. I had been too wrapped up in getting the deal to notice.

I pay a visit to my bank on the Monday, who, after an initial consultation with a young gent who reassured me everything would be fine, picks up the phone to report it to their security team (stays on the line for around 5 seconds) and then tells me BACS transactions are my responsibility and there is nothing they can do!!

I phone the police who take all the details and tell me they will be in touch as soon as the case is assigned an investigating officer (still no call from them). They also tell me I should be going back to my bank to request the funds to be recovered.!!

I call the banks head office and complain that I have been the victim of fraud, give crime number, and say that I used their website/online facilities to send the money. After long conversation with rude telephone agent request to speak to her superior who tells me basically 'bacs transfer is the same as handing someone cash.. You wouldn't hand a fraudster cash so why did you send them bacs' my argument is !that I used their online, website services as a carier to facilitate the transfer of funds so they should provide a similar level of security to Paypal who in such cases as this would raise a dispute and refund the money if it was confirmed as fraud. The guy just says that the cannot create a special rule for me and hangs up.:mad:

I go onto the financial ombudsman website and submit a complaint.

I have a mobile number for the seller which always goes to answerphone. I have an I.P. Address (watchuseek provided) which after providing to a friend whos a wiz on the net, deduced that the seller appears to be a Sky-reach broadband account located in the midlands. I have her bank details and google the sort code which turns out to actually be a bank in Birmingham.

I have been in touch with the police 4 times but nothing much seems to be happening. I Havent spoke to anyone Who is supposed to be investigating it but im told it is being investigated.

This is a warning, Don't pay by bacs unless you trust the receiver - you have no protection at all if they decide to keep your money.

If anyone reading this has any ideas if there is anything more I can do to try and recover this money id be greatly appreciative of suggestions. I know my house insurance covers me for lost cash if my wallet is stolen, even when I am not at home. I wonder if it is worth contacting them..

Sorry for such a lengthy post.

JT

BargainGalore

Hope you get your money back and that low life gets caught


Have you reported this to Action fraud

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

pendulum

I think the money's gone I'm afraid.

The bank account has probably been opened under a false name using false documents and the money removed from it as soon as it came in. That is, as I understand it, usually how these scams are set up.

The address given may be of an innocent party. If not, there's still only a small chance of getting the money back. Hopefully the police will visit the address and let you know their findings, although they are generally only interested in catching speeding motorists these days.

soolin

I'm sorry but this is an incredibly common scam and there will almost certainly be no way at all of getting your money back.

Paying for goods via bank transfer is a gamble as there is no buyer protection at all and it is not a fraudulent payment as the sender willingly sends the payment, it is not taken by an unknown third party.

If you can track the person down at all and get a real geographic address, and I realise this is near impossible, then you could try small claims, but other than that it looks like the money is lost.

Laz123

I'm not sure I understand what the problem of locating this lowlife is. In order to open up a bank account you have to provide proof of address, a utility bill with your name and address plus other id.

missile

Laz123 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what the problem of locating this lowlife is. In order to open up a bank account you have to provide proof of address, a utility bill with your name and address plus other id.

The bank will not give OP this information. They would provide to the police if they chose to investigate but it would likely turn out to be false.

Most eBay buyers know NEVER pay by BACS and sellers NEVER accept Paypal for goods collected in person. These are two very common scams.

soolin

Laz123 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what the problem of locating this lowlife is. In order to open up a bank account you have to provide proof of address, a utility bill with your name and address plus other id.

All easily faked unfortunately and not necessarily in date when bank acccount was opened. Also bank has that info, not the OP, and it is OP that needs it to go to small claims.

davemorton

Laz123 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what the problem of locating this lowlife is. In order to open up a bank account you have to provide proof of address, a utility bill with your name and address plus other id.

pendulum wrote: »

The bank account has probably been opened under a false name using false documents

The fraudsters know that is an easy way to trace them, so dont use their own documents to open them. IP address may be a shared one, or internet cafe.

Evilm

Laz123 wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what the problem of locating this lowlife is. In order to open up a bank account you have to provide proof of address, a utility bill with your name and address plus other id.

Which is probably all fake in this case. The lowlife is probably gone and never to be seen again. Unless the bank who opened the account raise fraud concerns with the police then nothing will be actioned to sort it out as far as I can see.

soolin

I can't explain this very well as my explanations ar enotoriously convoluted. However banks cannot release details of account holders as that breaches all sorts of rules.

Merely stating you have been defrauded is no help here, otherwsie anyone could get address details from anyone merely by paying into their account and then claiming fraud- the OP would need to go to court to get a ruling that the details can be released.

I'd be looking for more assistance from the watch forum- assuming they allow trading and assuming bank transfers are suggested as a means of payment.

It is also worth noting that OP signed out as soon as they posted last night, so whilst being very worried about the loss, they didn't stick around to see if anyone had any suggestions.

arcon5

I vaguely remember reading a while ago that if you believe a bank account is being used fraudulently you can submit a specific form to the bank managing that account. I can't remember where though so this could be wrong but still worth inquiring about.

However, even if this is the case, it doesn't mean the bank will do anything or be able to substantiate your claim so may not get very far - especially if the monies been moved or false documents used.

Otherwise, I have to agree with others. You're unlikely to see your money again, you've learnt a very expensive lesson. I sincerely wish you all the best, not a situation I would ever want to be in!!