Seller kept money. Lost £0000's. Nothing I can do?

pendragon_arther

To coin a wellknown phrase: They should be taken outside and executed in front of their families.

arcon5

And if that wasn't enough... look at the Direct Debit form you signed up to electronically when you opened the Paypal account... the entity that you authorised to take funds from your bank account ("JPMC Re PayPal Pte Ltd") doesn't exist! JPMC Limited is a Liverpool restaurant company.

So JPMC is the trading name of 'PayPal Pte Ltd'?

PayPal Pte Ltd is registered company number SE000007 - registered in Surrey.

I would never recommend using PayPal for expensive purchases, but they do have their benefits. I'll use them often for smaller purchases.

oscardog

GraceCourt wrote: »

so although the "User Agreement" claims to be governed by English law, you can't actually enforce it in the usual way with Part 27 (small claims) proceedings in the County Court, because you can't serve a Notice of Claim on a company based in Luxembourg using this part of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998.

oh yes you can:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3692053

Paypal Europe UK ltd
Hotham House
1 Heron House
Richmond upon Thames
Surrey
TW9 1EJ

Alternatively:

Paypal (UK) Legal Dept
Whittaker House
Whitteker Avenue
Richmond Upon Thames
TW19 1EH

Apologies for continued posting off thread!!

TTFN

GraceCourt

arcon5 wrote: »

So JPMC is the trading name of 'PayPal Pte Ltd'?

PayPal Pte Ltd is registered company number SE000007 - registered in Surrey.

No, you have quoted the company registration of Paypal SE - which is a European Public Limited-Liability Company (SE) and is one of three companies registered in England and Wales to undertake marketing, etc., for Paypal, but legally they have no connection with PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, registered in Luxembourg. You cannot therefore serve legal process for Paypal on any of these companies.

JPMC might be a trading name of somebody but you cannot sue a trading name, nor can you enter into a contract with a trading name, hence why it's of great concern that Paypal customers authorise this unknown entity to take money from their accounts.

As stated, there is no such company as Paypal Pte Ltd in the UK, and "JPMC" - whatever that is - is not a sole trader, partnership, or corporate body, so the only conclusion is that Paypal doesn't want to reveal who actually collects the money. If UK customers knew who did, that company could be the subject of Third Party Charging Orders in the UK to freeze money destined for the Luxembourg company, which is precisely what Paypal doesn't want to happen if a customer has a legal dispute with them.

It's no accident that the e-mail address for enquiries doesn't exist!

It's an important principle in law, and it's typical that Paypal won't identify who collects its revenue in the UK. Hopefully, Trading Standards enquiries will remedy this lacuna.

GraceCourt

oscardog wrote: »

oh yes you can:

Oh no you can't! These three companies are legally completely unconnected with PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie - see my next post. That's the point you seem to have missed... just because the word "Paypal" appears in the company names, it makes no difference, and they are completely different legal incorporations.

Any proceedings against any or all of these three companies will fail unless you actually have a legal claim against those companies - e.g. if you had a contract to clean their office windows and they didn't pay up!

If you don't believe me, perhaps there's a tame lawyer out there who can confirm this - it's basic contract and company law.

If you really do want to pursue PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, you will need to use the European Small Claims procedure, for which there is a useful guide here, but you need to understand that this is not the usual County Court Small Claims procedure, to which Part 27 Civil Procedure Rules 1998 is applicable, but rather a quite separate process, to which Part 78 CPR 1998 (Rule 28.12 onwards) applies. Good luck, if you do!

oscardog

GraceCourt wrote: »

Oh no you can't! These three companies are legally completely unconnected with PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie - see my next post. That's the point you seem to have missed... just because the word "Paypal" appears in the company names, it makes no difference, and they are completely different legal incorporations.

Any proceedings against any or all of these three companies will fail unless you actually have a legal claim against those companies - e.g. if you had a contract to clean their office windows and they didn't pay up!

If you don't believe me, perhaps there's a tame lawyer out there who can confirm this - it's basic contract and company law.

If you really do want to pursue PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. et Cie, you will need to use the European Small Claims procedure, for which there is a useful guide here, but you need to understand that this is not the usual County Court Small Claims procedure, to which Part 27 Civil Procedure Rules 1998 is applicable, but rather a quite separate process, to which Part 78 CPR 1998 (Rule 28.12 onwards) applies. Good luck, if you do!

We are taking this way off thread but I myself have taken Paypal to court through small claims and the judge has agreed with there being a case to answer and the case goes to court in a couple of weeks.

As long as you have an address to serve the paperwork you can proceed.

Unless you still wish to argue when I have done exactly what you say is not possible and the sitting District Judge agrees with me.

Now we should let this get back to the original thread.

Nukumai

OP - persevere. You have been defrauded...be politely but firmly persistent with the police that they investigate.

antrobus

GraceCourt wrote: »

...JPMC might be a trading name of somebody but you cannot sue a trading name, nor can you enter into a contract with a trading name, hence why it's of great concern that Paypal customers authorise this unknown entity to take money from their accounts....

JPMC is JPMorgan Chase & Co.

GraceCourt wrote: »

It's an important principle in law, and it's typical that Paypal won't identify who collects its revenue in the UK. Hopefully, Trading Standards enquiries will remedy this lacuna.

See above.

George_Michael

antrobus wrote: »

See above.

Why?
It's obvious that GraceCourt has a one tracked mind when it comes to paypal, and despite plenty of evidence being posted that clearly shows that what the believe is wrong, they cant' or won't accept it.

Originally Posted by GraceCourt
...JPMC might be a trading name of somebody but you cannot sue a trading name, nor can you enter into a contract with a trading name

Suing a limited company for a small claim

If you are suing a limited company, list its full name and address. A limited company is considered a person.

This means that you can sue and enforce a judgment against a company. Don't sue the owners of the limited company or its managing director individually unless you have a personal claim against them that is separate from their role as part of the limited company

This is also confirmed by Trading Standards. (and also by many other consumer advice websites).
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/kent/factsheets/FS4NEW%20nov07%20smallclaimscourt.pdf

shaun_from_Africa

Then one morning a well priced watch located in the UK (most of my buying is from overseas) appeared for sale on the classified section of watchuseek.com. One of the leading Internet watch discussion sites

.

It might be worth your while posting on that forum, asking if anyone else has been defrauded by the same person.
If you can prove that it's not a one off and that there are more people involved then you may have more of a chance of getting the police involved.