I have joined the UKIP party

c0rneL

A._Badger wrote: »

Yes, I do recognise that BBC narrative. It's just wrong, I'm afraid.

The BBC is on a mission with its fellow travellers on the 'progressive' (sic) Left to pretend that we are all immigrants and that there is no such thing as an Englishman. Curiously, they get uneasy when faced with Irish, Welsh or Scottish nationalism - which should be the cue any curious person needs to start unravelling the nest of illogic and distortion that passes for knowledge in that sector.

Which, of course, isn't to say that just because there actually is such a thing as an Englishman means he is any better than a Dutchman or a Dane. But it is simply mendacious to, on the one hand, champion the identity of the Irish, for example, while pretending the English don't exist.

All countries (well, there are a few exceptions, but let that pass) experience immigration but that does not change their essential quality - it's a minor flavouring as opposed to an extinction.

That all it is! back in history there were no state borders, and people move from one place to other, then States were formed, wars started, protectionism flourished, nationalism triumphed leading to more wars and more protectionism. Now we are in the brink of reasoning with the facts that we are all humans and we all share the same planet, the same air, water and sun, the same DNA and the same characteristics. Protectionism, nationalism is not the way forward, is a huge step backward. Cooperation and fair competition will eventually eradicate poverty and will put wars in history for good....

c0rneL

A._Badger wrote: »

Language. How many is Africans, Poles or Bangladeshis speak Swedish? For heaven's sake think!

on one aspect; you fail to acknowledge that most low skill jobs do not require a lot of linguistic competence. and in Sweden everyone speaks English, is like second language there
Also, wonder why so many Poles, Bangladeshi, etc speak English?

A._Badger

c0rneL wrote: »

on one aspect; you fail to acknowledge that most low skill jobs do not require a lot of linguistic competence. and in Sweden everyone speaks English, is like second language there
Also, wonder why so many Poles, Bangladeshi, etc speak English?

I'm sorry. You are too irredeemably dim and ill-informed to argue with. Life is just too short.

Frankly, I'm not even sure you're not a troll with time on his hands on Good Friday evening.

Sleep tight.

c0rneL

A._Badger wrote: »

I'm sorry. You are too irredeemably dim and ill-informed to argue with. Life is just too short.

Frankly, I'm not even sure you're not a troll with time on his hands on Good Friday evening.

Sleep tight.

History is on my side, and history will repeat;
not even 75 yeas since Nazi Germany decided that three is no place for Jews in Europe as they were immigrants and not native Europeans.

manchesterred

c0rneL wrote: »

History is on my side, and history will repeat;
not even 75 yeas since Nazi Germany decided that three is no place for Jews in Europe as they were immigrants and not native Europeans.

Oh here we go, object to unrestrained migration into a heavily overpopulated island , & according to some, your secretly drawing up plans for gas chambers in your garden shed ! :doh: .. Loose the argument, resort to form..

ILW

c0rneL wrote: »

That all it is! back in history there were no state borders, and people move from one place to other, then States were formed, wars started, protectionism flourished, nationalism triumphed leading to more wars and more protectionism. Now we are in the brink of reasoning with the facts that we are all humans and we all share the same planet, the same air, water and sun, the same DNA and the same characteristics. Protectionism, nationalism is not the way forward, is a huge step backward. Cooperation and fair competition will eventually eradicate poverty and will put wars in history for good....

You really do not have a clue.

Borders have existed from the first days of the human race, it started with families, which then became tribes. It is the natural way of things.

For example: if a wild fox wishes to move into the territory of another - he will have to fight for it and the loser will have to leave.

vax2002

Nationalism is the idea that a country sets out its policy in the best interests of that country, it trades within its bests interests, it only ever goes to war if its interests are at stake or threat.
Given that we have had many wars including the longest in our recent history under the present socialist/ EU parties we presently have, I think your theories are best left in the sixth form along with your ideals of giving away the wealth that everybody else worked for to those who dont.
That is the problem with socialist ideals, eventually you run out of others wealth to hand around to the lazy, then it becomes violent.

adindas

c0rneL wrote: »

but they have a very competitive job market, their benefits are spent wisely, they teach children that resilience hard-work in learning and not laziness will bring success.
Therefore, even-though Sweden did not impose restrictions not many immigrants could compete with agile eager locals for jobs! they do not have the levels of immigration we see in the UK

What differentiate Sweden with UK immigration control is the language. In order to get a highly skilled job you need a good command of language in that country.
How many people could speak Swedish without previously live in that country or have a tight connection with that countries. This will normally come from the hard working students who formerly study in that country. or the people who are having business relation with those countries. English is a global language spoken by many people around the world.

Also the UK ties with its former colonies which includes the counties with massive population with significant economic development difference with UK. So it makes sense if UK government shall have a tighter immigration control in anticipation of economic immigrants.

But closing the door, not allowing or ignoring the contribution of highly skilled immigrants which is needed in this country will make this country less competitive in global arena in the long run.

Look at the countries like US, Australia. Who are bringing up those countries to the current stage. Are they coming from native ??

DavidLaGuardia

c0rneL wrote: »

Wonder why UK engineering is in decline? Wonder why UK do not produce as much as they used to? -- not because of immigration, but because producing require innovation, skills, etc -- HARD WORK! That is why other countries thrive on producing while others just buy on money borrowed against ever rising house prices.......

This is total nonsense.
Engineering has decline for other reasons including:
1. Globalisation. The shift from manaufacturing to service sectors due to manufacturing and wage costs being cheaper for companies in other countries. Subsequently many of the apprenticeships, vocational and employer-sponsored academic applicants has declined.
2. Engineering as suffered from a decline in those wishing to study it in higher education due to other areas being promoted more heavily promoted or "sexed up" by cultural influences and the media (engineers are wrongly perceived as wearing boiler suits rather than slick professionals as they are elsewhere).
3. Along with all sciences there has been a decline in applicants, partly due to 2. above, partly because of the dry unappealing nature of certain science courses in schools in the near past (e.g. the dreadful Nuffield text books in schools) and, the lack of good scientists/engineers entering teaching due to other more highly paid opportunities (no doubt compounded year on year by the decline in enough qualified individuals)
4. The misguided actions of some unions who undermined good apprenticeship schemes, that had focussed on training over production, by their demands for relative wage rises.

tartanterra

Immigration is necessary for any industrialised nation. To what extent that migration is required probably flexes on a monthly basis. And that is where it all falls down, as we are simply not geared up to cope with this as a country.

And that's the crux of the matter. It's not that we are unable to implement a system of controlled immigration which is beneficial to everyone, it's the fact that we lack the political will to do it.
Our politicians are completely out of touch with the electorate, and most of the time, absolutely unaccountable.
And it's our own fault. I find it appalling at how few people have any idea who their MP is; never mind their local or County Councillor.
We have almost disenfranchised ourselves in a free democracy because a large part of the population are more interested in what B-list celebrities get up to rather than why our reputation as a manufacturing country has suffered so greatly.

With so few people interested in driving the country forward and getting things right from either a local or national basis the voice of the majority is handed over to the extremist and minority groups who shout the loudest.

It wasn't that long ago that people died to bring us the universal vote; to make this a fairer and more democratic society.
What the hell happened? Why can't we have a reasoned and sensible national debate on immigration without the agenda being hijacked by those who don't speak for the majority.

It's high time for some common sense debate involving the majority.