Nationwide Flexclusive ISA - 4.25%, instant access

Paul_Varjak

Rosemary_Jane wrote: »

I opened my Flexclusive ISA with the full allowance as new funds in April.

Having read this thread, I have transferred in further money from previous years which was in an eISA. I now have over 10K in the Flexclusive ISA, which is way above the annual amount.

I am wondering whether to take in my passbook to get it updated, and see what happens.

If there is going to be an ombudsman's complaint, might as well get it sorted ASAP. What does everyone think?

R

I would not tempt fate, even though it is clear we are right and Nationwide is wrong! I want to get next year's ISA monies into the Flexlcusive ISA as well.

Paul_Varjak

le_loup wrote: »

The guides are not part of the T&Cs, so quoting those is not helpful.
HOWEVER.
I have a copy of the guide and the T&Cs (P115 April 2012). In the T&C part, page 23, section headed ISAs, paragraph

3. (a) Your annual allowance ... £5,640 in a cash ISA ...
(b) You can split your cash ISA allowance between an Instant Access ISA, an Online ISA, a fixed ..., a Flexclusive ISA and/or ...
(c) This information is based on our understanding and interpretation of the current tax legislation ...

Could not be clearer.

If they produce a CASH ISA GUIDE I think we are entitled to use that to support our claim. The T&Cs are crucial of course and the guide may clarify (but NOT override) the T&Cs.

le_loup

Paul. What's the problem?
I was trying to help:
1. by letting Rosemary Jane know that I did update my book after doing on-line transactions to see if there were problems. There were not and she should feel confident about doing it to add to the confidence we share about what we have done.
2. To let Hooloovoo know that there are T&Cs stating what he thought was guidence only.

I hope you now understand my two posts today.

As for reliance on the guide, the guide says you can't put more than the allowance in this account. We are using the T&Cs as justification for what we have done.
WE [EMAIL="CAN@T"]CAN'T[/EMAIL] HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Comprende?

Paul_Varjak

Sorry, le loup, my comments were not meant as any sort of criticism and I did stray off topic in my response!

Hooloovoo

I have received my written response. Interestingly, it is the exact opposite of that received by Banana Man.

They have said that the transfer from my e-ISA should not have been allowed, and due to this they will have to transfer the funds back into my e-ISA account and update my file to show £500 subscription.

They have given me a cheque for £25 in recognition for their error in the transfers not being picked up correctly. Obviously I can only cash this if I accept it in full and final settlement of the case.

This is their final response and they have given me the details of the Financial Ombudsman Service.

Now here is where it gets interesting. They have also included a print of a document called "Cash ISA - Your Guide" which is possibly the same document they have given Banana Man.

They have highlighted the section headed "Flexclusive ISA".

There is a line that states "Available to new subscriptions only up to the annual cash ISA limit". However, it is in a sub-section titled "Opening the account" so I think it would be reasonable to argue that the clause only applies to opening the account. ie you have to make a new subscription you can't open the ISA for only previous years funds.

This line regarding new subscriptions is definitely missing from the terms and conditions - paragraph 87. A "guide" leaflet can not over rule the legal terms and conditions.

Later, there is another section headed "How do I transfer an existing ISA?" and it clearly states "You can transfer funds between any of our products without them counting towards your annual ISA allowance".

At least they are going to reset my ISA subscription so that I am not screwed out of this years allowance. That's good. They can transfer the funds back to my e-ISA and reset the allowance so I am back to my original position.

I will then forward the complaint on to the Ombudsman.

Hooloovoo

le_loup wrote: »

The guides are not part of the T&Cs, so quoting those is not helpful.
HOWEVER.
I have a copy of the guide and the T&Cs (P115 April 2012). In the T&C part, page 23, section headed ISAs, paragraph

3. (a) Your annual allowance ... £5,640 in a cash ISA ...
(b) You can split your cash ISA allowance between an Instant Access ISA, an Online ISA, a fixed ..., a Flexclusive ISA and/or ...
(c) This information is based on our understanding and interpretation of the current tax legislation ...

Could not be clearer.

I think this guide is the same document they have sent me.

As far as I am concerned a "guide" is a plain-english explanation of the terms and conditions. If there is an error in the guide it is the terms and conditions that take precedence. The guide does not and can not overrule the terms and conditions.

Indeed, at the top of the terms and conditions it states "We strongly advise you to read all the terms and conditions as you will be legally bound by them". That works both ways - for both bank and customer.

It will remain to be seen if the Ombudsman agrees with that.

badger09

What a complete and utter shambles!

I've been following this thread with great interest. In addition to my Flexclusive ISA, I have only just over £1k currently in an eISA @ 3.1% (having moved the bulk to a NatWest 3 Year Fixed Rate:)) so for the sake of around £12, wasn't going to bother transferring it into the Flexclusive.

However, my husband has a much larger sum in a Nationwide Fixed Rate ISA (not sure which one) which has just matured, and I was going to persuade him to xfer it.

Given Nationwide's apparent incompetence I'm going to xfer all but a couple of £s of mine, just to see what happens .

le_loup

Hooloovoo wrote: »

As far as I am concerned a "guide" is a plain-english explanation of the terms and conditions. If there is an error in the guide it is the terms and conditions that take precedence. The guide does not and can not overrule the terms and conditions.

Indeed, at the top of the terms and conditions it states "We strongly advise you to read all the terms and conditions as you will be legally bound by them". That works both ways - for both bank and customer.

I entirely agree.
You did notice that the bit I quoted WAS from the T&Cs part, not the guide part?
What is the reference of the guide they sent you? It'll be on the back cover, bottom left.

le_loup

badger09 wrote: »

Given Nationwide's apparent incompetence I'm going to xfer all but a couple of £s of mine, just to see what happens .

I think I'm right in saying that for a fixed rate ISA you cannot put the proceeds into a different account without using a form. i. e. not on-line.
You may have to use as a temporary home, an Online or E ISA, then transfer it out of there.

Hooloovoo

le_loup wrote: »

I entirely agree.
You did notice that the bit I quoted WAS from the T&Cs part, not the guide part?

Yep.

What is the reference of the guide they sent you? It'll be on the back cover, bottom left.

P115 April 2012, the same as yours.