Nationwide Flexclusive ISA - 4.25%, instant access

xylophone

The fact that there isn't a condition to prohibit it, means it is allowed.

Silence implies consent?

Hooloovoo

xylophone wrote: »

Silence implies consent?

In a list of terms and conditions, yes.

Banana_Man_2

Banana_Man wrote: »

Anyway, called NW today to query their refusal to consolidate into Flexclusive ISA. Spoke to a number of people at various levels who all immediately said 'transferring in is not allowed', then referred me to supervisor/manager when I asked them to name the clause in T&Cs which specifically states that restriction.

I was pretty persistent in asking for that - and they did seem to be a lot of long delays on the line when I asked them to read the legal/ISA/Flexclusive T&C (referenced earlier in this thread) to find something relevant, patently they couldn't over the duration of the phone call.

The final manager was adamant that there is a clause in the T&C preventing transfers, but again couldn't reference it. He has raised an internal document request the result of which is that I should be sent the specific clause by end of next week. I wait with interest!

I'll update when I get the promised documentation - hopefully not a generic letter stating 'sorry transfers into Flexclusive are not possible - pls call this number to discuss savings options with us, blah blah blah'.

... Fair play to NW, they did get back to me (last Saturday - 2 weeks from my request for specific T&C preventing transfer into Flexclusive). Quite a wordy letter from a member of the 'Issue Resolution Team Channel Support'.

Salient points are:
"Although I am aware you feel the criteria for the Flexclusive ISA stipulates you only need to open the account with new monies I can confirm this is not the case.

"Due to recent product changes I am unfortunately unable to provide you with the 'Cash ISA - Your Guide' leaflet that was available when our Flexclusive ISA product was launched however, I have enclosed a copy of the information that was detailed within this leaflet in April 2012.

"On page 8 of this document you will find information that relates to the Flexclusive ISA. Within the 'Further Information' section you will see the following statement:
* 'Available to new subscriptions only up to the annual cash ISA limit'

"As I am sure you are aware you can pay in money to your Flexclusive ISA online via your nationwide card account. From reviewing the account information I can see you have completed transfers from your e-ISA directly into your Flexclusive ISA. Although the Online banking facility will allow you to transfer from an existing ISA, I can confirm the Society does highlight these occurances to ensure the transfer funds are classes as new subscriptions.
"

I'm thinking of writing back to take issue with this statement, as the term in bold (page 8 - Flexclusive ISA) only relates to the 'Opening the Account' section of the Flexclusive T&Cs.

Furthermore, page 12 of the same Cash ISA guide: 'Transferring your existing Nationwide ISA product to another Nationwide ISA product' states: 'You can transfer funds between any of our products without them counting towards your annual ISA allowance'. Although this statement is in the 'guide' before the legal T&C it's a pretty clear invitation to transfer funds between ISAs'.

I don't think this adds much to what has said before in this thread, maybe just underlines the fact that Nationwide don't have any clear terms preventing transfers into Flexclusive. The last paragraph of the NW letter looks a bit sinister, though not sure what it actually means - my transfers in have taken me over the 12-13 ISA subscription limit, but are NOT showing as annual subscriptions.

Interested in any comments / advice.

Thanks.

Hooloovoo

Banana_Man wrote: »

Although the Online banking facility will allow you to transfer from an existing ISA, I can confirm the Society does highlight these occurances to ensure the transfer funds are classes as new subscriptions.

The society can do what they like, but that doesn't change HMRC rules.

It states quite clearly in several Nationwide documents that all cash ISAs are combined within "The Nationwide Cash ISA" wrapper. They are separate products but all contained within "The Cash ISA" wrapper held at one institution.

This is in accordance with HMRC rules. You could even open several different Cash ISA products in one tax year if you wanted so long as they are all within the same institution.

Transferring funds directly from an "e-ISA" to a "Flexclusive ISA" transfers funds between different types as defined by Nationwide, but the funds still remain within the one "Nationwide Cash ISA" wrapper as defined by HMRC.

No matter what Nationwide say this transfer can NOT be considered to be a new subscription when considering HMRC rules.

I assume I am going to eventually get a similar letter to the one you have received. This is going to have to go to the ombudsman. Nationwide clearly do not understand the rules as defined by HMRC.

Thrugelmir

Hooloovoo wrote: »

You could even open several different Cash ISA products in one tax year if you wanted so long as they are all within the same institution.

Can you?

How would the provider monitor your subscription level.

Hooloovoo

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Can you?

Yes.

Provided it is supported by the financial institution. It is certainly allowed by HMRC.

Nationwide definitely allow it. You could put for example £2000 in a fixed rate and £3640 in an instant access if you wanted. It's all classed as a "Nationwide Cash ISA".

Not all financial institutions allow you to split up your yearly allowance.

How would the provider monitor your subscription level.

Nationwide display your total subscription for the tax year as a combination of subscriptions over all the Cash ISA types you hold with them.

The website does the right thing. When you transfer from e-ISA to Flexclusive ISA it does not increment your subscription counter, because there is no new money being subscribed as defined by HMRC.

It's just the staff that don't understand the rules.

le_loup

Banana_Man wrote: »

Furthermore, page 12 of the same Cash ISA guide: 'Transferring your existing Nationwide ISA product to another Nationwide ISA product' states: 'You can transfer funds between any of our products without them counting towards your annual ISA allowance'. Although this statement is in the 'guide' before the legal T&C it's a pretty clear invitation to transfer funds between ISAs'.

The guides are not part of the T&Cs, so quoting those is not helpful.
HOWEVER.
I have a copy of the guide and the T&Cs (P115 April 2012). In the T&C part, page 23, section headed ISAs, paragraph

3. (a) Your annual allowance ... £5,640 in a cash ISA ...
(b) You can split your cash ISA allowance between an Instant Access ISA, an Online ISA, a fixed ..., a Flexclusive ISA and/or ...
(c) This information is based on our understanding and interpretation of the current tax legislation ...

Could not be clearer.

Rosemary_Jane

I opened my Flexclusive ISA with the full allowance as new funds in April.

Having read this thread, I have transferred in further money from previous years which was in an eISA. I now have over 10K in the Flexclusive ISA, which is way above the annual amount.

I am wondering whether to take in my passbook to get it updated, and see what happens.

If there is going to be an ombudsman's complaint, might as well get it sorted ASAP. What does everyone think?

R

le_loup

After I increased my balance to more than the annual allowance, I took my book in and got it updated ... no problems!

Paul_Varjak

le_loup wrote: »

After I increased my balance to more than the annual allowance, I took my book in and got it updated ... no problems!

That is good to know! But, I won't be taking my book in to get it updated as it is possible to do most transactions on-line. My Nationwide branch is 11 miles away and I have not been there for about 3 years now. Nationwide may be the largest Building Society in the world but that does mean your local branch is nearby!

If I want to get monies into a Nationwide account I pop to my local Post Office (0.4 miles away) and place a deposit into my Co-op bank account. A few days later I can then transfer (via Internet banking) to my Nationwide current account.

Some people who read this thread have current accounts in many places but may not realise they can use their local Post Office to pay monies into many bank accounts. Here is a list of banks that have an agreement with the Post Office...

http://www.postoffice.co.uk/making-withdrawals-in-branch