proof of working

HappyMJ

fogartyblue. wrote: »

How times have changed.

When someone becomes self employed they of course are responsible for keeping records of income and expenditure.

Now I see that they have to keep a record of how many hours they work in that self employment?

Why?

I was self employed for 8 years, started a business up from nothing (and I mean nothing - no capital, no clients!) Afte 8 years it was time to move on and sold out to a much larger company and made a few £'s with the deal!
No one, not even HMRC ever suggested that I should keep a diary showing what I did on a day to day basis for the purposes of recording hours worked. Yes a diary for the business is one thing, but having to 'clock in and clock out' has got to be a joke.

I have no idea how many hours I worked in an average week, there was no average week!

Some days it would have been 18 hours, whilst other weeks, I would be off with my wife for a month's holiday. Work hard - Spend hard!!

This hours thing is ridiculous. What would HMRC say whilst we had a month off in the States? That I wasn't actually running a business?

As if!!

The record for hours is only for grant and benefit purposes it is not required otherwise. If you wish to claim working tax credits then a record of average hours is required. The condition to claim the back to work grant is actual fulll time employment or self employment not just a promise that this will happen.

HappyMJ

Queries wrote: »

A small business account consist's of Gross Sales (what clients pay you via invoicing) - this can be done either by a duplicate invoice book from a stationer's (get a receipt so you can include it as an expense) or via your word-processor (if you buy an ink-cartridge just for invoicing then this counts as an expense)- starting at number 01, date, client, client's address, amount, paid cash or cheque.

Plus, the back to work grant of £40 a week. For example, you earn £90 a week plus £40 a week back to work grant then your gross sales are £130. Minus, your purchases/expenses do you have to buy clothes/footwear just for work? Do you have to buy any cleaning products, or do your clients supply them? Do you get the bus to work or do you drive there? If you get the bus solely for work then you can charge the whole lot back as an expense (keep the receipt as proof - expense wise). If you drive there - do you use your vehicle for 25% of your work assignments? (In which case you can charge back as an expense 25% of - insurance costs, petrol costs, road tax, MOT., service costs, repair costs, depreciation costs (now called WDA -Write Down Allowance costs). If you use your vehicle for more than 25% business-wise then adjust accordingly. (Keep every receipt relating to the business). Also, if you are cleaning for a living do you have to wash your clothes more? - If you have to pay more gas (to dry your clothes), more electricity and water (meter-wise) to wash your clothes, then charge back as an expense accordingly keeping receipts and bills as proof.

So layout of a weekly Profit &Loss Account would be (for example)

Gross Sales £90
Grant £40
Total £130
Less Expenses £50
Net Profit £80

This is just an example, good luck. Also, being self-employed you may have to, in the future, pay National Insurance 2. Plus, if you are worried about Taxation Issues, then please 'phone the tax office.

You do not add the grant as income. It is tax free and not required to be declared. The 45 pence a mile allowance is much easier and the miles would also be included in a mileage diary and no receipts are required.

Dognobs

Another one of those "I am working 16 hours a week honest!" Can I have max tax credits please so I don't have to sign on and get a proper job.

Sixer

hmc wrote: »

since jan ive been self employed cleaning
16 hrs
i get £40 a week back to work grant via jobcentre
they sent me a form asking for proof in the form of recipts,invoices or diary,about hrs worked
so i sent in my diary
they say this isnt good enough and want recipts
when i registered self employed with the tax office, i asked about this and they said i didnt need to get recipts or invoices for private cleaning just keep a diary
so what do i do now
what sort of invoice or recipt are they wanting?
i never see most of the ladies i clean for?
any advice id be grateful thanks

How much profit are you making for your 16 hours a week? Is there another income in your household?

It seems likely you have raised risk assessment flags for the self-employed with concurrent WTC claims. If so, you may find it easier to raise invoices/receipts and ask your clients to validate them than to fight the decision maker over taking your diary as sufficient proof of hours.

The issue probably isn't your self-employment; it's your tax credit claim.

fogartyblue.

HappyMJ wrote: »

The record for hours is only for grant and benefit purposes it is not required otherwise. If you wish to claim working tax credits then a record of average hours is required. The condition to claim the back to work grant is actual fulll time employment or self employment not just a promise that this will happen.

In my example, logic dictates that starting a business takes an enormous number of hours.

Since when has it been a requirement for a WTC claim to have to prove what hours were worked. It never featured in any of the rules & regs when I claimed it.

I claimed the old Disabled Tax Credit which then changed to WTC. I was never asked to prove what hours I worked.

As for the back to work grant, I would accept that there has to be some control, but if someone is starting up a business, are they suggesting that it would not be a time consuming exercise?

As I have said, how times have changed. Are tea breaks, toilet visits and the odd long lunch considered as not part of the working week anymore?

Ask anybody who runs a business what it is like hours wise.

World gone mad.

fogartyblue.

HappyMJ wrote: »

You do not add the grant as income. It is tax free and not required to be declared. The 45 pence a mile allowance is much easier and the miles would also be included in a mileage diary and no receipts are required.

It can be treated as capital introduced!

shedboy94

fogartyblue. wrote: »

In my example, logic dictates that starting a business takes an enormous number of hours.

Since when has it been a requirement for a WTC claim to have to prove what hours were worked. It never featured in any of the rules & regs when I claimed it.

I claimed the old Disabled Tax Credit which then changed to WTC. I was never asked to prove what hours I worked.

As for the back to work grant, I would accept that there has to be some control, but if someone is starting up a business, are they suggesting that it would not be a time consuming exercise?

As I have said, how times have changed. Are tea breaks, toilet visits and the odd long lunch considered as not part of the working week anymore?

Ask anybody who runs a business what it is like hours wise.

World gone mad.

So by claiming WTC the income you declared to HMRC must have been low........yet you could afford at the same time to go on a months holiday to the states.......

fogartyblue.

shedboy94 wrote: »

So by claiming WTC the income you declared to HMRC must have been low........yet you could afford at the same time to go on a months holiday to the states.......

Not in the early days we didn't. But we had a belief that working hard = playing hard, cos you never know what is around the corner.

Yes our assessable profits were low, kept that way by careful planning.

I sold up when my wife became disabled and decided on having a much more simpler, quieter lifestyle.
Do we regret doing what we did No, not at all!
And besides which I sold out to a larger company and made a few £'s out of the deal.

hmc

ok, so i rang them up today. she said to get an invoice book,fill it in for the dates they require.
stating name and address of who i work for and how much i earn
i said to her that i was under the impression that i shouldnt disclose clients names and addresses because of client confidentiality. she said i had to for their records .this is all for the in work credit.tax office seem happy with what im doing
im already paying my stamp even though i am exempt with having a child under 12 and earning a low wage
there is no other income coming into the house
i use the car for all 16 hrs of work
so i guess i need to tell all my clients they might get a phone call?

hmc

Dognobs wrote: »

Another one of those "I am working 16 hours a week honest!" Can I have max tax credits please so I don't have to sign on and get a proper job.

how rude! i am working 16 hrs and as a single parent recovering from cancer i needed a very flexible job that fitted round school. im extreemly proud of myself for getting well enough again to be able to have my own little buisness!!!
so mind your own....