Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

Cardew

1carminestocky wrote: »

IMO you members of the AUWF are letting your anti-UW bias cloud your judgment here (what's new?? ). .

Your post above is yet another 'advert' for UW.

UW's attitude toward the regulations is apparent in the Hon Charles' (boss of UW) objections in his response to the, then, ofgem proposals; he was dead set against these proposals as he obviously realised the impact it would have on their sales methods.

The very idea that prospective customers could actually have a written estimate of their gas and electricity costs must be an anathema to a sales force that rely on customers who trust them. - friends, family and recommendations from customers - who stand to financially benefit from that recommendation.

Fortunately ofgem paid no heed to Charles' objections - perhaps the first thing ofgem have got right in years!!!

I really do find it extraordinary that you have the gall to talk about bias clouding our judgement, when the potential impact on UW's sales techniques has obviously been appreciated by UW's Chief Executive.

Actually I do largely agree with his sentiments in the last paragraph of his letter:

Finally, I would make the observation that the biggest culprits when it comes to mis-selling, for the reasons set out above, are in fact the various comparison web-sites. In many cases this is a deliberate tactic they adopt, as demonstrated by their policy of advertising long term savings based on exploiting short-term timing differences between suppliers announcing their price changes. The reality is that these are commercial businesses, whose objective is to drive switching in order to generate commissions rather than to actually generate savings for their users, and in many cases they have structured their sites in such a way as to ensure that the suppliers which generate the highest commissions are presented in the most favourable way. Future action to promote confidence in these sites as being "impartial" is in our view misconceived.
Yours sincerely

Whatever the merits or demerits of the 'UW Package', the harsh reality, assuming the 'spirit of the regulations' is followed, is that prospective customers will have written evidence that their gas and electricity prices are several hundred pounds more expensive than the cheapest available.

Of course if they don't follow the regulations and produce accurate written estimates, I suspect that there will be plenty of people prepared to report the salesmen/company.;)

Quentin

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

if I lived near Sainsburys, things would be different and i'd have signed up.

The uw has realised that not shopping at Sainsbury's gives the reps relatives and friends an excuse to say NO.

To get round this they are now taught NOT to mention Sainsbury's at all when showing their brothers etc how to make the promised phenomenal savings when they sign up, just talk about how much money a year they spend on supermarket shopping (even though the rep knows their gullible friend can't benefit as he doesn't shop at Sainsbury)

And they come here and claim all they are doing is "helping" their friends and relatives!

You can hear them being trained in this ethical way here:

http://www.teamcalls.co.uk/

(This one is dated 18/10/09)

1carminestocky

Readers must take into account the views Cardew expresses OUTSIDE this thread are often contradicted by the views he expresses IN this thread. I think I would label it SEBIH (Shameless Extreme Bias-Induced Hypocrisy). Have a read of this thread he started on this very forum to discover his REAL views regarding comparison sites.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1886895&highlight=comparison

NigeWick

[QUOTE=Quentin;28070169http://www.teamcalls.co.uk/

(This one is dated 18/10/09)[/QUOTE]Now how about a link to your Utility Warehouse pre payment card beating cashback card? Or, you could of course admit that you have lied or made a mistake.

I am a Utility Warehouse independent distributor and the views I express may not be shared by the company.

Cardew

1carminestocky wrote: »

Readers must take into account the views Cardew expresses OUTSIDE this thread are often contradicted by the views he expresses IN this thread. I think I would label it SEBIH (Shameless Extreme Bias-Induced Hypocrisy). Have a read of this thread he started on this very forum to discover his REAL views regarding comparison sites.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1886895&highlight=comparison

Are you 'losing it a little bit' carespress?

I said about Charles' letter:

Actually I do largely agree with his sentiments in the last paragraph of his letter

Charles stated about comparison websites:

The reality is that these are commercial businesses, whose objective is to drive switching in order to generate commissions rather than to actually generate savings for their users, and in many cases they have structured their sites in such a way as to ensure that the suppliers which generate the highest commissions are presented in the most favourable way.

That indeed is the whole thrust of the thread I started. Absolutely no conflict in my views in that thread or this thread. The websites will give accurate information if you enter your consumption in kWh, but if they can maximise their commission by getting people to switch - they will.

However, no matter that you will want to divert attention away from ofgem's new very sensible regulations, the fact is that having to give written estimates detailing UW's extremely high gas and electricity prices will(hopefully) impact on selling to hitherto unsuspecting customers.

Quentin

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

If you con friends/family in the way you describe, then they find out, do they not just leave UW and ex-communicate you?

Thats what happens in some publicised cases.

eg This rep found his friends turning round and running the other way as soon as they saw him coming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBCRZ0eZ-D4

Wonder why uw allow this to remain on public view?

But uw don't really care - they keep training the reps to be economical with the truth, keep mentioning the worthless guarantee, etc. as we have seen and now heard!

Quentin

That is the secret of the uw "success".

The average rep has 9 customers (drawn from their "warm" list of gullible friends and family) who don't expect their brother/son to con them.

In truth they probably don't realise they are conning them, having gone through uw brainwashing training which we have all seen and heard! (eg using the worthless guarantee as a selling tool, dissing the switching sites for being corrupt etc etc)

NigeWick

Quentin wrote: »

But uw don't really care - they keep training the reps to be economical with the truth

It appears that you need no training to be economical with the truth. You have stated that you have knowledge of a Utility Warehouse pre payment card beating cashback card. Unless you can provide a link to it or some other evidence of its existence, you are proven to be a liar.

Cardew

After 3 pages of the UW faction going into hyper-distraction mode(which sadly Quentin and myself seem to encourage:o) Perhaps it is time to ask the question of UW ID again?

Quentin - he is a self confessed wind up merchant so just ignore his stupidity.

The only UW ID to post is again only concerned about Quentin's cashcard.

Cardew wrote: »

OK, Any UW ID have any idea on how UW will deal with the latest ofgem directive in this release.

http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/MEDIA/FACTSHEETS/Documents1/probefs.pdf

Two extracts in particular are relevant:

A survey for Ofgem’s probe last year showed more than one in two people switching did so in response to contact with a salesperson.
However, many who switch on the doorstep inadvertently move to more expensive tariffs perhaps because they are misled or unable to accurately compare tariffs. Ofgem has introduced tougher rules on doorstep sales ensuring that suppliers provide customers with written estimates before any sales are concluded. This will enable customers to compare the offer with their current deal. And a new requirement that any information used in marketing activities is clear, accurate and easy to understand is also being applied to cover telesales.


In addition to these new rules, Ofgem has introduced overarching standards setting out that suppliers should not sell a customer a product or service that they do not fully understand or that is inappropriate for their needs and circumstances. They should also not offer products that are unnecessarily complex or confusing. These standards will not be directly enforceable themselves, instead they guide suppliers to comply with the ‘spirit’ of regulation as well as the letter of the licence conditions. However, when deciding whether to investigate potential licence breaches and when considering consumer detriment Ofgem will have regard to these standards.

Now without going into any point scoring against UW,(that might come later!!) I think it is without dispute that:

1. Virtually all of UW’s business is as a result of contact with a salesperson.

2. There can be no question that UW’s gas and electricity prices are just about the most expensive in UK. Even the Triple Value Guarantee will now not apply – see other changes on the Regional supplier electricity tariffs.

3. The requirement to provide customers with a written estimate of gas and electricity prices will prove conclusively that their prices are much more expensive – there will not be the ability to ‘invent’ hypothetical situations where UW fare well e.g. low Gas and 90% consumption of electricity at night on Economy 7

4. The(valid) considerations of the UW cashcard and discounts for referring other customers will surely not be allowed to be included in a written estimate:

e.g you currently pay £1000 for gas and electricity with BG/EON/EDF/ etc and the same gas and electricity will cost £1,300 with UW. However if you get the cashcard, spend £9,000pa in shops that accept the card, and each year persuade several customers to join UW, you can pay less than you are currently paying.

Bear in mind the requirement to ensure that the product is not “inappropriate for their needs and circumstances.”

Also “they should also not offer products that are unnecessarily complex or confusing” as well as within the “Spirit of the Regulation”

Interesting Times!!!

NigeWick

Cardew,
>>> many who switch on the doorstep inadvertently move to more expensive tariffs perhaps because they are misled or unable to accurately compare tariffs.<<<

Any person I have dealings with gets to look at the Utility Warehouse tariff booklet so that they can compare what is on offer against their current provider. I also point out that the company may not be for them and go on to explain how I get my best deal. The decision is theirs as I do not believe in pressurising anybody into buying. This has advantages for me. The customer is happy that they have made their own decision and they know that if they refer somebody to me, these others will be treated like adults too.

Do you believe that there is not one person who can benefit by being a Utility Warehouse customer?

I am a Utility Warehouse independent distributor and the views I express may not be shared by the company.