Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

keggs

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

Most people convicted of libel don't think they've said anything wrong. I am merely pointing out that it would be very easy for those companies who have been named and allegations made against on this thread to take the matter further if they thought they were being misrepresented, or lied about in a way that impacts their reputation. Which? base their reputation on impartial surveys and reports, but inferences are that their processes are flawed and they knowingly publish results that have been manipulated by outside influences. They may feel that infers fraud and dents their reputation as truly independent and impartial. There have been many allegations about Utility Warehouse on here, too numerous to mention to go into individually. Again, they could view the things being said to have gone too far.

Personally, as you don't seem to be able to take a hint or even comprehend what I am talking about, I would have no sympathy at all for you if a summons appeared on your doormat. If you think you know best then go for it, but there have been many like you in the past, who think they can say whatever they like about whom they like and nothing can be done. All i'm saying is be careful what you say on this board, as it might come back to bite you if you're not careful.

Excellent post

Cardew

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

Most people convicted of libel don't think they've said anything wrong. I am merely pointing out that it would be very easy for those companies who have been named and allegations made against on this thread to take the matter further if they thought they were being misrepresented, or lied about in a way that impacts their reputation. Which? base their reputation on impartial surveys and reports, but inferences are that their processes are flawed and they knowingly publish results that have been manipulated by outside influences. They may feel that infers fraud and dents their reputation as truly independent and impartial. There have been many allegations about Utility Warehouse on here, too numerous to mention to go into individually. Again, they could view the things being said to have gone too far.

Personally, as you don't seem to be able to take a hint or even comprehend what I am talking about, I would have no sympathy at all for you if a summons appeared on your doormat. If you think you know best then go for it, but there have been many like you in the past, who think they can say whatever they like about whom they like and nothing can be done. All i'm saying is be careful what you say on this board, as it might come back to bite you if you're not careful.

Whilst I understand the thrust of your argument, I cannot help but wonder why you think this particular thread offends.

Read all the other threads about BG/BT indeed all the 'Big 6'. Time and time again they are openly accused of criminal behaviour, deception, lying etc. Posts that by any definition are libel.

If we take the case of Which.

Your quote above is a typical distortion when you say:

"Which? base their reputation on impartial surveys and reports"

They clearly jealously guard their reputation on reports and whilst their integrity is never challenged, their conclusions are often challenged.

However it makes no such claim for surveys as it is patently obvious that a reader's survey can be manipulated as it relies totally on the participants giving unbiased answers.

UW have a unique sales structure with some 30,000 salesmen who, together with their families, have a vested interest in their company performing well in the survey.

In fact on their latest survey Which were at pains to point out that UW got the highest marks for value despite their prices being 20% higher than the cheapest. IMO that comment itself speaks volumes.

I am a fan of Which. However like any survey of this kind it is vunerable to any form of lobbying and the results rendered meaningless.

SwanJon

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

Personally, as you don't seem to be able to take a hint or even comprehend what I am talking about, I would have no sympathy at all for you if a summons appeared on your doormat.

That seems a bit unjustified, and I think I'll take that one personally (seeing as you quoted me in your post). While I'm sure a few posters on here could argue (not neccesarily succesfully) that I'd libelled them, I dont think UW could even get that far.
You see, as many on here are at pains to point out, they are independent distributors, and not employed by UW. So I could libel an individual ID all I liked and UW (for the reason you provide) couldn't do anything.

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

However, I can't accuse anyone else of libel and take them to court on another's behalf - that's not how the libel law works.

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

In short, if you want to stand up here, name a company, any company, and make allegations about them then you'd better make sure that what you are saying is true and you can prove it

Wonderful, try telling that to some of the UW IDs on here, or can they say what they like about UW's competitors?

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

"I cannot help but wonder why you think this particular thread offends". :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

It's not up to say whether you think their integrity is challenged. If they think it is then it's entirely up to Which? what it does about it. I'm not bothered either way Cardew, see?

Think you missed the point (or maybe you are a student of Carmine's practising Deflection 101). Why didn't you bring this up in any one of the 'Comapny X is ripping us off' threads?

jimexbox

uptomyeyeballs wrote: »

Carry on then. It'll all end in tears, mark my words.

Any survey be it one by Which, or a newspaper which relies on their readers to respond can by it very nature be open to abuse. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Do Mori and Gallup take out an advert asking folk to ring in with their voting intentions? No. They take a careful representative sample of people with age, sex, and social back ground being some of the many factors they use to achieve an accurate result. Why do you consider it libellous to suggest that a survey which relies on such methodology could be open to abuse? Nobody that I can remember is saying that this has happened with Which magazine. I say it is a possibility, which it most certainly is.

So I ask again which posts to you consider libellous?

1carminestocky

Personally, I would just let them go for it, uptomyeyeballs. It's not like you haven't tried to warn them. Your conscience is clear on this one........

NigeWick

Cardew wrote: »

I am a fan of Which. However like any survey of this kind it is vunerable to any form of lobbying and the results rendered meaningless.

However, you have not proven that Utility Warehouse distributors, personnel or customers have influenced WHICH?s survey results any more than the staff or customers British Gas and any other utilities provider.

I am an independent distributor with Utility Warehouse and the views I express may not be shared by the company.

1carminestocky

I think Cardew just doesn't like the fact that British Gas always fare so badly in these Which surveys. A paltry 38% rating this time, only 'beaten' by npower's 28%. BG reportedly have over 200,000 employees and retirees, BTW. Sort of dwarfs UWs 30,000 distributors (actually it's 32,000 now according to the trading update, up 5000 in the last 6 months).

Cardew

NigeWick wrote: »

However, you have not proven that Utility Warehouse distributors, personnel or customers have influenced WHICH?s survey results any more than the staff or customers British Gas and any other utilities provider.

.

10% of UW's customer base are salesmen for their product.

If there were 1.8 million BG salesmen then your theory might have some validity.

The whole methodology of the Which reader's survey is wide open to abuse by vested interests.

vinnyph

I noticed that the Which? Legal Service can provide unlimited professional legal advise for a small annual fee.

It might be advisable for people to seek legal advise through the Which? when attempting to libel the reputation of the Which? They may be more lenient.

1carminestocky

Lol.................