Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

NigeWick

Quentin wrote: »

The "sales methods" complained about include telling lies, evidenced by the videos and scripts we have seen that are used by reps, not to mention selecting where to park your car and pretending the owners of the cars next to you need rewarding (with a uw sales mesage) for parking considerately. Or pretending to be lost and thanking strangers for giving you directions by giving then uw sales info.

And not to mention phoning your friends and pretending to have a problem at work that they can help you out with some practice, when all you really want to do is sign them up for multiple utilities ("cos that's what the top distributors do"):

I think this government would call the methods "positive spin." Why not mention asking friends/relatives for help? I have asked people for help and they give it. If I can bring them some financial advantage during that help, what is the problem? I have thanked strangers by offering them information in the form of written material. Should they choose to act in it (or not), that is their choice and that appears to be the sticking point for you. You do not seem to accept that others are different from you, want different things and are prepared to accept different conditions to you, in order to get what they want. It also appears that you fail to grasp the concept of a win-win situation, one can gain by helping others. An American businessman once said "If I can help enough people get what they want, I will get everything I want." There are potentially millions of people in this country who can benefit from getting their utilities with Utility Warehouse. What is the harm of providing evrybody with information that could perhaps save them money?


I am an independent distributor with Utility Warehouse and any views expressed here are my own and may not be shared by the company.

NigeWick

SwanJon wrote: »

Nige, how recent is this training?

Only announced in an e-mail I picked up last week. There has always been free training available but it was not a requirement that distributors attend. I suspect that with the numbers now joining, the company has realised there is greater potential for the percentage who are unscrupulous to have more of an impact because of those rising numbers.

SwanJon

Thanks Nige.
Still a little worrying that they were happy to send these IDs out into the world with only hearsay/chinese whispers to back them up. No wonder there are so many upset customers/prospects out there.
This should make a difference though.

You didn't answer the bit about sweeping up the untrained/unaccredited IDs? Heard anything?

Quentin

vinnyph wrote: »

if you took time to actually calculate the UW prices based on what the customer pays rather than simply making accusations against UW then you would see that the price comparison site quotes involving UW are not accurate.

The problem about trying to argue with the few successful ones in a mlm/pyramid type company, is that they are certainly well trained in brushing aside objections. Even though the objection is not really addressed.

Linking getting the price down of expensive utilities by saying you need to factor in getting the benefit of using the (risky) cashback card is no argument at all.

You could still get those (and more) discounts directly off your shopping by using another cash card, and buy your utilities cheaper elsewhere, instead of having to just use the discount to make it seem the package is "competitive".

So saying the comparison sites don't include them is irrelevant - they are comparing the cost of the energy!

(And why does the comparison site we are told is actually run by the uw rep come up with the same prices as all the others)

NigeWick

SwanJon wrote: »

Still a little worrying that they were happy to send these IDs out into the world with only hearsay/chinese whispers to back them up. No wonder there are so many upset customers/prospects out there.
This should make a difference though.

You didn't answer the bit about sweeping up the untrained/unaccredited IDs? Heard anything?

ID's used to get a manual to read when they joined, along with some promotional stuff and forms to sign people up with. It's a thick volume and takes a bit of getting through. I expect quite a few scanned it and got on with trying to earn some money. I do not think there are taht many "upset customers/prospects out there" as most people are reasonable and want satisfied customers/prospects to keep their earnings up. Remember, no customer, no cash each month.

I have not heard anything but ID's are encouraged to attend training if they think they are a bit rusty. The company are starting a pay if you don't show fee, which I think is fair as the venues do cost money. The company are also strict on the way their services are offered and termination of contract is the usual form for serious offenders. People who have put a lot of work into building their business do not want to lose their monthly earnings.

Quentin

NigeWick wrote: »

The company are also strict on the way their services are offered and termination of contract is the usual form for serious offenders.

The company don't seem too upset by the misleading claims and downright lies used in the on line uw sales videos used to get customers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpB0rbgWWSc&NR=1


Some easy to spot lies include:

1) We guarantee you will pay less than BG and your local electricity supplier

2) Other companies may seem cheaper, that's because what they do is give you a good offer for 6/12 months but tie you in to a 3 year deal which is very expensive for the remaining 2 years.

3) No minimum contract for energy (in fact in their ts + cs they insist on 28 days written notice if you want to leave)

4) If you cancel your broadband within 12 months you must pay £50 for the router - in fact you must return the router whenever you cancel, and pay £50 as well if you cancel within 12 months.

Additionally the Which report is used (against which's rules) to show uw as the "best buy", and following on from the great gary telling us their monthly billing system is the only one in Europe, this guy goes further, and tells us it's the only company in the world able to produce a single bill each month!

vinnyph

SwanJon wrote: »

Nige, how recent is this training? No-one responded way back when I asked what training or accreditation IDs received, and recently we have come across this 'new' training.
Is there anything planned to sweeep up all the untrained/unaccredited IDs?
Why was UW happy to have untrained/unaccredited IDs selling its products?
I recognise that all suppliers have bad apples in their sales teams as pointed out by vinny, but to assume that Joe Bloggs will be able to stick within the guideleines with no training seems... naïve.

The training has always been in place. The training has not changed either it has just become compulsory by choice of UW itself. It is not a regulator based decision either. UW are simply self regulating themselves to ensure distributors do not cause problems. There are some inactive distributors who have never attended COE who would have to attend if they wanted to become active and sign up a customer, but if they haven't done anything yet then they probably never will. Even if someone didn't attend a training session from COE then there are many other ways to get training for instance their upline. Also a distributor has to read through the guidelines in detail and sign and send a declaration that they understand and will follow them before being allowed to sign an energy customer. They also have to sign a declaration that they do not have a criminal record or been sacked for miss selling or anything else that might put them in question. It would be an offence to provide wrong information as well. So to suggest that UW distributors are untrained isn't true. The regulators are quite happy in the way UW is run. Because distributors are not under pressure to get customers and recommend to their friends then the chance of a problems occurring is lessened. UW are just putting extra precautions in place to ensure problems don't occur by making it compulsory to attend COE. There are many training courses that distributors can attend and it is free as well once they join and can attend as many times as they want. I have been on COE training over 30 times because I take people I introduce to it. I also make sure the people I introduce are professional people because I either know them or know the person who recommended them personally. The average age of a UW distributor is also about 50. We are told to find quality people on training. The UW COE training is of a high standard.

A door to door salesman would be under lots of pressure to get sales with the other companies, that is why cases of miss selling occur, they are under lots of pressure from their manager and also to get enough sales to earn enough. The turn over of door to door sales people is very high in those companies as well. Typically teenagers are sent out with a small amount of training and expected to get many sales per day straight away. Also there are the international sales call centres the other companies use where contractors are used to get customers. That does not happen in UW. There have been one or two cases of deliberate abuse but that could occur no matter what precautions could be put in place. Some people cannot be trusted but UW quickly gets rid of them because it does not want a bad reputation.

Quentin

vinnyph wrote: »

Some people cannot be trusted but UW quickly gets rid of them because it does not want a bad reputation.

Having the reps pay to attend a rally to hear big al teach them how to manipulate their prospects minds goes a long way to establishing their reputation.

http://www.networkerplus.co.uk/videos/rejection-free-presentation-big-al.html

SwanJon

NigeWick wrote: »

I expect quite a few scanned it and got on with trying to earn some money.
People who have put a lot of work into building their business do not want to lose their monthly earnings.

But there's a big gap between becoming a new ID and having 'built a business'.

It is the new IDs that are most likely to be *cough* inaccurate when selling, and despite vinny's protestations, needing to sign up x customers in y months to get my £200 back is pressure.
So the IDs under most pressure to get customers were also the ones given 'a thick volume' that 'quite a few scanned it and got on with trying to earn some money'. UW made no checks that they had even done this.

As to the 'did they jump or were they pushed' - does it matter? (they may have even jumped just before they were pushed). UW has not been making sure that people selling its products have been trained consistently to work within the agreed industry guidelines. I dread to bring up energysure - all I got last time was Carmine going - 'but look, SSE are bad too'.

vinnyph

Quentin wrote: »

The problem about trying to argue with the few successful ones in a mlm/pyramid type company, is that they are certainly well trained in brushing aside objections. Even though the objection is not really addressed.

Linking getting the price down of expensive utilities by saying you need to factor in getting the benefit of using the (risky) cashback card is no argument at all.

You could still get those (and more) discounts directly off your shopping by using another cash card, and buy your utilities cheaper elsewhere, instead of having to just use the discount to make it seem the package is "competitive".

So saying the comparison sites don't include them is irrelevant - they are comparing the cost of the energy!

(And why does the comparison site we are told is actually run by the uw rep come up with the same prices as all the others)

Are you not just again being selective in order to try to back up your bias against UW. Not to mention a vitreous unfounded attack on mlm in general. Sorry, it again just shows your bias, bigotry and above all lack of credibility when it comes to UW. I guess you still believe the price comparison sites are accurate with respect to UW prices.

Is it not the combined price that someone pays in any case. If that ends up being cheaper with UW then I cannot see why you have such a problem with that. You can try and infer problems with UW all you want but at the end of the day if the person is happy with what they have and their combined package is better for them and cheaper also then who exactly you to tell them otherwise. The problem isn't UW or distributors but your bias against them. True.