Utility Warehouse (Telecom Plus) Discussion

NigeWick

Cardew wrote: »

The detractors in this thread object to the misleading advertising and sales tactics of the company; and in particular the posters with a very strong vested interest in promoting the company.

By any measure UW sell some of the most expensive gas and Electricity in UK.

I thought this was a money saving site and all you were interested in is prices and how to save money.

Not by Carmine's measure, nor mine. As I keep saying, Utility Warehouse will not suit everybody, but, for some people it is best value. Even you have conceded for those who would not get the immediate cheapest price for electricity and gas, that if one is prepared to use the prepayment card to good effect, then one can actually pay less than with any other company.

I am an independent distributor with Utility Warehouse and any views expressed here are my own and may not be the same as the company's.

NigeWick

Cardew wrote: »

However the main dislike of the ‘UW detractors or anti UW faction’(no apology for either term) is not the very high prices UW charge for gas and electricity. It is the spamming and disreputable sales tactics of many of the UW reps who post on MSE and attempt to fool readers that their prices are cheap.

If it were not for the 'anti-UW faction' posting facts about UW’s high prices, the less well informed might actually believe that UW’s discredited TVG had any substance.

I will let members make up their own minds on this subject. The Triple Value Guaranteee followed by the SMALL PRINT:-

Our unique "Triple Value" guarantee will give you peace of mind.

• For your gas, we guarantee our prices will always be lower than British Gas, wherever you live in the UK.
• For your electricity, we guarantee our prices will always be cheaper than the prices charged by your regional electricity supplier for the area where you live.
• And for your complete peace of mind, we guarantee our prices will always remain competitive compared with the cheapest tariffs available from the "Big 6" suppliers*

THE SMALL PRINT.

“Big 6” means the six major energy companies who currently supply over 98% of UK households, comprising: British Gas, E.ON, npower, EDF (London Electricity, Seeboard and SWEB), Scottish Power and Scottish & Southern Energy.

Guarantees and price comparisons are based on the standard domestic usage profiles for low, medium and high users on a like-for-like basis and exclude Club membership fee, surcharge for gas customers using an Independent Gas Transporter, Dual-Fuel discounts and online tariffs. Only applies to direct debit customers. During periods when retail prices are changing, we typically announce our new prices after most of the “Big 6” have set their new prices in order to ensure our new prices are competitive and in line with our “Triple Value” guarantee. Therefore when energy prices are falling, there may be a short period before our new prices take effect when our prices may be higher than those available from certain other suppliers. The reverse will however generally be true during periods when energy prices are rising.

janninew

Cardew wrote: »

I have been at pains to state ‘amongst’ the most expensive gas and electricity in UK – or words to that effect. If you go to any of the comparison websites UW are usually in 50+ position out of 60 or so tariffs. The tariffs that are more expensive are usually ‘green’ tariffs.


If it were not for the 'anti-UW faction' posting facts about UW’s high prices, the less well informed might actually believe that UW’s discredited TVG had any substance.

The last time i went on a price comparision web-site (about 3 weeks ago) UW were in the top 10 for me, so obviously everybody gets different results. So the statement above is obviously personal to you, not everybody is going to get the same results as you, so UW won't always be in 50+ position as stated.

Also if people are naive to believe everything that is said on these boards, well its their own fault. These boards should be for advice only, get advice and then check all facts yourself! I wouldn't change my supplier on here because somebody said how good they are, i would do my research first!!

1carminestocky

It's a topic I raised ealier but Cardew chose to ignore it. I'll say it again. Cardew took out a 5 year fixed deal with BG in 2005. At the time the tariff was considerably more expensive than even BGs standard tariff (and certainly way more than the Click online tariff BG craftily launched the year after Cardew took out his fixed deal). At the time I'm entirely convinced that Cardew's fixed 5 year deal would have been towrads the very bottom of the comparison sites, i.e. a very expensive tariff. Very. But he still signed up. Why? Because he gambled on prices increasing substantially in that 5 years period and him being in profit eventually. He's admitted himself many times that fixed deals are a gamble. I've no problem with this approach if that's what an individual wants to do. Nothing to do with me.

So, I do find his approach to UW slightly puzzling. It has been conceded by everyone that on the 'bald' g&e figures shown on the comparison sites that they are by no means the cheapest. But they only paint a part of the overall picture (much like the very expensive tariff rates showing for the 5 year fixed deal signed up for in 2005). There are ways to make UW the cheapest deal on the market. Unlike Cardew's 5 year commitment there's no 'gamble' here at all. You can leave the g&e at any time and pay £50 to leave the phone/BB within the first 12 months (again, Cardew has accepted BTs long 18 month min contract 'gamble' to get a better price than if he hadn't accepted their stipulation). It's all about what suits the individual. But some people just don't appear to be able to accept that. Why, I genuinely can't fathom.

Cardew

janninew wrote: »

The last time i went on a price comparision web-site (about 3 weeks ago) UW were in the top 10 for me, so obviously everybody gets different results. So the statement above is obviously personal to you, not everybody is going to get the same results as you, so UW won't always be in 50+ position as stated.

Also if people are naive to believe everything that is said on these boards, well its their own fault. These boards should be for advice only, get advice and then check all facts yourself! I wouldn't change my supplier on here because somebody said how good they are, i would do my research first!!

Care to give details of your consumption and area for that top 10 result?

Obviously we are just giving advice. The anti UW faction's advice is that UW prices are amongst the very highest in the UK.

1carminestocky

Cardew wrote: »

Care to give details of your consumption and area for that top 10 result?

Obviously we are just giving advice. The anti UW faction's advice is that UW prices are amongst the very highest in the UK.

I'm a UW customer and can confirm I will pay less with them for gas, electric, phone, broadband and calls than I would with any other company (or combination of companies). Fact.

Cardew

NigeWick wrote: »

I will let members make up their own minds on this subject. The Triple Value Guaranteee followed by the SMALL PRINT:-

Our unique "Triple Value" guarantee will give you peace of mind.

• For your gas, we guarantee our prices will always be lower than British Gas, wherever you live in the UK.
• For your electricity, we guarantee our prices will always be cheaper than the prices charged by your regional electricity supplier for the area where you live.
• And for your complete peace of mind, we guarantee our prices will always remain competitive compared with the cheapest tariffs available from the "Big 6" suppliers*

THE SMALL PRINT.

“Big 6” means the six major energy companies who currently supply over 98% of UK households, comprising: British Gas, E.ON, npower, EDF (London Electricity, Seeboard and SWEB), Scottish Power and Scottish & Southern Energy.

Guarantees and price comparisons are based on the standard domestic usage profiles for low, medium and high users on a like-for-like basis and exclude Club membership fee, surcharge for gas customers using an Independent Gas Transporter, Dual-Fuel discounts and online tariffs. Only applies to direct debit customers. During periods when retail prices are changing, we typically announce our new prices after most of the “Big 6” have set their new prices in order to ensure our new prices are competitive and in line with our “Triple Value” guarantee. Therefore when energy prices are falling, there may be a short period before our new prices take effect when our prices may be higher than those available from certain other suppliers. The reverse will however generally be true during periods when energy prices are rising.

OK let us spell out, for any new readers of this thread, just how the 'small print' renders the Triple value Guarantee meaningless and means that UW prices for 'gas and electricity' are amongst the very highest in the UK.

1. The comparison with BG gas prices is only against BG's expensive 'Standard' tariff. It excludes the cheaper BG tariffs such as their internet tariffs.

2. In the comparison, UW's prices are for payment by Direct Debit only - they charge a large premium for non DD payment.

3. For those who are not aware, for historical reasons, each geographic area of UK has a regional electricity supplier who have to charge an expensive standard tariff. Obviously there are much cheaper electricity tariffs available from other companies for that area and even other tariffs from the regional supplier

The UW comparison cleverly takes that most expensive regional supplier's standard tariff as the basis for their comparison.

a. They exclude any cheaper tariff that company has to offer e.g internet.

b. As with BG for comparison purposes they use UW's payment by DD price.

4. They exclude any Duel Fuel discounts given by any company.

5. They exclude any surcharge for IGT - even if UW charge and another company doesn't charge.

6. They exclude UW's monthly membership fee from the comparison.

7. They do not spell out the terms of their 'Guarantee to remain Competitive' with the big 6. Rather like I can guarantee that I will be competitive over 200 metres in a race with Usain Bolt. My 'small print' will ensure that happens!!

So in summary the only way that their Guarantee works is if they can stipulate the most expensive combination of gas and electricity supplier for a particular location, stipulate exactly which of those company's tariffs to use, stipulate the payment method, and exclude all the discounts those companies offer and exclude UW's unique additional charges.

In practice it of course means that UW's prices are amongst the most expensive available in UK.

Yet this meaningless, discredited 'Triple Value' guarantee is trotted out to unsuspecting and naive customers - often family and friends - in the knowledge(or hope) that they will not read or understand the small print.

If anyone has any doubts about just how high UW's gas and electricity prices are, just enter your details in any of the comparison networks that Martin recommends.

vinnyph

Cardew wrote: »

OK let us spell out, for any new readers of this thread, just how the 'small print' renders the Triple value Guarantee meaningless and means that UW prices for 'gas and electricity' are amongst the very highest in the UK.

1. The comparison with BG gas prices is only against BG's expensive 'Standard' tariff. It excludes the cheaper BG tariffs such as their internet tariffs.

2. In the comparison, UW's prices are for payment by Direct Debit only - they charge a large premium for non DD payment.

3. For those who are not aware, for historical reasons, each geographic area of UK has a regional electricity supplier who have to charge an expensive standard tariff. Obviously there are much cheaper electricity tariffs available from other companies for that area and even other tariffs from the regional supplier

The UW comparison cleverly takes that most expensive regional supplier's standard tariff as the basis for their comparison.

a. They exclude any cheaper tariff that company has to offer e.g internet.

b. As with BG for comparison purposes they use UW's payment by DD price.

4. They exclude any Duel Fuel discounts given by any company.

5. They exclude any surcharge for IGT - even if UW charge and another company doesn't charge.

6. They exclude UW's monthly membership fee from the comparison.

7. They do not spell out the terms of their 'Guarantee to remain Competitive' with the big 6. Rather like I can guarantee that I will be competitive over 200 metres in a race with Usain Bolt. My 'small print' will ensure that happens!!

So in summary the only way that their Guarantee works is if they can stipulate the most expensive combination of gas and electricity supplier for a particular location, stipulate exactly which of those company's tariffs to use, stipulate the payment method, and exclude all the discounts those companies offer and exclude UW's unique additional charges.

In practice it of course means that UW's prices are amongst the most expensive available in UK.

Yet this meaningless, discredited 'Triple Value' guarantee is trotted out to unsuspecting and naive customers - often family and friends - in the knowledge(or hope) that they will not read or understand the small print.

If anyone has any doubts about just how high UW's gas and electricity prices are, just enter your details in any of the comparison networks that Martin recommends.

Again you base your assumptions on the price comparison site figures for UW gas and electricity prices.

It appears that the Anti UW Faction main policy is their belief that they always quote facts. Maybe it should be written Anti UW FACTion, or maybe Anti UW Fact ion. So you charge UW with your 'fact'. Well an ion missing charge is a cation not an anion. Now everyone knows that curiosity killed the cat, so if an ion missing a charge is a cat ion I conclude that by eluding to your assumption based on your curiosity of price comparison site prices that your charge is missing. It also means that the use of the term Anti UW Faction is without meaning. You shouldn't call it Faction. That is a distortion of the term. Cation would be better. If curiosity killed the cat then the faction renamed cation is no more.

If anyone says this off topic, well electricity is based on charge and electricity is part of the basis of this topic.

If anyone thinks this is a overly complicated and not based on logical reasoning then I ask you to evaluate cardews post as to why.

If UW are so expensive as cardew postulates in an unproven axion then why does carmine get the cheapest for him?

Why does cardew choose to ignor carmines fact?

vinnyph

I should redo my signature as

856,338 to 0:j

as in last quarter UW have gained a considerable number for services and do this despite considerable scorn from the anti UW faction.

Maz

Hey Carmine!

Cardew also chooses to ignore the FACT that ALL my customers are saving money with UW compared to their previous suppliers. Some have the cashback card, most of them don't. He has stated in one of his posts that he doesn't believe me!

UW rep etc.