FIL refusing to get out of bed

dandy-candy

Dunroamin wrote: »

I think that this chap could get better treatment for both his emphysema and depression but if he feels he wants to go when he's already of a great age then that it by no means selfish.

When my DH visited him after he'd been in bed for 3 days, he (my DH) said he got the impression FIL had just taken to his bed to die. The thing is he really isn't so weak that he is going to just die (thankfully - he is a very sweet man). He has bad lungs but he isn't frail, he is also very mentally sharp - he still beats everyone at chess and scrabble! All that is realistically going to happen is that he will get horrendous bedsores and possibly a blood clot. We really need to coax him out of bed.

dandy-candy

patchwork_cat wrote: »

You say he doesn't bother taking his medications regularly. I don't know if you have ever suffered or been in pain, but you do remember.

Is it an attention seeking thing, do you think? Alternatively is he depressed suffering from a sort of agrophobia. Agrophobia begins because someone has a panic attack ( eg) in a public place, they then believe that it is the public place that gave them the panic attack and if they don't go out they won't get a panic attack and it is self fulfilling. I believe this is in very simple terms and obviously life and mental health is much more complicated, but that is how someone explained it to me.

Does he think he will collapse if he gets up, but if he doesn't get up he won't collapse? Can he just not be bothered with it all anymore - is it a form of depression. Whatever the reason it is upto the Dr and their team to evaluate and you to support, so pass it back to them.

I definately think it is a fear thing. My SIL actually said to me that he had said he was worried about having a bad turn again. I also think the feeling depressed and like giving up plays a part.

WhiteHorse

Why no oxygen? Is there a genuine reason, or are they just cost-cutting?

Dunroamin

dandy-candy wrote: »

He doesn't have a nebuliser. I don't know what condition you need to be in to qualify? Before he took to his bed, he would be able to manage (slowly) around the house. If you stayed a few hours chatting then by the time you left he would be a bit breathless as though he'd been jogging, but ofc he was just sitting in a chair the whole time. I'm not sure if that is bad enough to need nebulisers/oxygen at home?

I wouldn't worry about a nebuliser. If he has good technique with his inhalers, or uses a spacer, these are just as effective.

Needing oxygen and being breathless are totally different things. To find out his oxygen saturation he needs a pulse oximeter (one of those things that you put on your finger) and many COPD patients have their own so that they can check easily. They aren't expensive.

You are absolutely right about the exercise though. My husband is virtually housebound but still walks up and down inside the house for at least half an hour a day (with frequent stops!) and does much worst if he misses a day.

A course of pulmonary rehabilitation would be the best thing for your FIL where he could learn the importance of exercise and generally educate himself about his condition and learn the different breathing techniques he needs. Getting him to go is obviously a different matter!

Something also needs to be done about your SIL bringing infection into his home. Every time he has an exacerbation he will lose a bit more lung function and eventually he'll get an infection that he doesn't recover from. At the very least, she should stay away from his room if she has to stay and be exceptionally careful about hand washing etc.

Caroline73_2

WhiteHorse wrote: »

Why no oxygen? Is there a genuine reason, or are they just cost-cutting?

The OP has said that her FIL is non compliant with his medication. The GP may have decided that this is enough of a reason to not prescribe the oxygen.

daska

faux wrote: »

I don't think Embarrassing him or giving the tough love treatment is that ethical considering that he is from what is written both depressed as well as physically ill. I think at this stage on his life you should all just let him get on with what he chooses, but be there to support him.

If you read it again you'll see that I didn't suggest embarrassing him, I suggested that there might be something they could use to persuade him out of bed if he would be embarrassed to be seen in bed, or something similar. I.E. Perfectly ethical and far less embarrassing than visiting time on a hospital ward.

And if it's depression that's causing him to feel that he wants to give up then would it not be more ethical to deal with the both the symptoms and the depression and let him enjoy his last days, months, years...?

merlin68

Are you sure his not worse than what he says he is. my dad died just before xmas at 82. we thought he was being lazy, but didn't realise his cancer had spread to his bones and bladder. He physically couldn't do it. maybe he had a stroke or has something else wrong with him

euronorris

dandy-candy wrote: »

When my DH visited him after he'd been in bed for 3 days, he (my DH) said he got the impression FIL had just taken to his bed to die. The thing is he really isn't so weak that he is going to just die (thankfully - he is a very sweet man). He has bad lungs but he isn't frail, he is also very mentally sharp - he still beats everyone at chess and scrabble! All that is realistically going to happen is that he will get horrendous bedsores and possibly a blood clot. We really need to coax him out of bed.

My Grandma adopted a similar attitude in the last few years of her life. She was already living with my folks by that time, and some days, the only thing that got her out of bed was either a) if a visitor was coming or b) if my Mum had to go out, and she would be home alone (she hated that more).

But....she was very open about her wish to die. Had been for years. Said she was 'ready' and could 'feel it coming'. She was tired.....really tired. And had been in a lot pain and discomfort for years. At that point, there was no hope for her condition to improve, so she just wanted it all to end. Not to the extent that she would take her own life, but she wasn't about to do anything to extend it either, when doing so would just prolong the agony for her.

Technically speaking, none of her conditions made her so weak that she was liable to die at any point. Even in the last week, she had still been coaxed out of bed of a few times. And then she just passed peacefully during the night.

It does sound like your FIL may be feeling the same/similar. In which case, the best thing you can do (IMO) is to respect that, make him comfortable, and get some assistance (to lessen the strain on his brother more than anything).

But first, has anyone asked him why he won't get out of bed? Or outright asked him if he wants to die? I don't know him, so I don't know how he'd respond to such a question, or even if you want to know the answer, but you could always ask.

((HUGS))

LEJC

Ive read your original post OP...and can honestly say I could have written it myself...this is my situation,and how it has progressed since September last year....

My mothers husband is 84,he suffers from emphysema/COPD ...and last september was prescribed antibiotics for a chest infection...he took to his bed and there he stayed....

Prior to this happening,he wasnt a particularly active man but would get up every morning wash,shave, dress and put on a suit before sitting to watch the tv or maybe once a week go out...suddenly it all stopped...he lived in the same clothes, and grew rampant facial hair,turning him into a sight we had never seen the like of before....and all offers of help were refused point blank along with his medication....we also saw a dramatic loss in weight as if he was only eating enough to barely survive

By october we had involved the doctors who kindly agreed to admit him to hospital for observation/invesstigation...he was there 10 days in total before returning home,the diagnosis being that there was nothing significant that would cause the weight loss or the change in his appearance/attitude,the situation was put down to "old age"....with an increased care package partly funded by social services and the promise that he would get up and be a little more active he returned home...

that promise lasted just a matter of days before he returned to his old ways of not moving from the bed,carers would bring his food to him and again he only ventured out of bed to use the commode in the corner of the room!....christmas came and we did manage to pursuade him to come downstairs and eat a christmas lunch but within seconds of the last mouthful he had retreated to his bed again...

By mid january and after countless home visits by the doctor it appeared that he possibly was on the verge of another chest infection,bought on possibly in part by what the doctor termed as self neglect...and it was decided that he needed to be admitted to hospital again....but he refused...we were an hour away from obtaining a sectioning order from the court of protection to admit him to hospital forcably,but in the end he went on his own judgement....

He has since been sectioned under the mental health act as again whilst in hospital he refused all form of medication and personal care preferring to stay in bed...3 weeks ago he was placed in a nursing home,where the same problems still seem to exist.

Its been a really difficult time for all of us,not least my mum,but in truth we actually believe that his incapacity to do or want to do anything has led him to the situation we find him in today...in truth if he had an on/off switch he would have used it.

Please get the doctor and social services involved they can arrange care for him so at least the burdon of that isnt placed on his elderly brother...but it could well be that sadly your FIL is just finding that life is too hard and there is no magic solution, its more about trying to ensure that hes cared for in a safe environment.
This is always done taking the persons wishes into account and if it is the fact that hes frightened of catching another illness then by speaking to the relevant health professionals they can hopefully calm his fears...however you must prepare yourselves that if he still refuses the help then decisions over his wellbeing will be taken out of his hands and made on his behalf,as happened in our case once self neglect was recognised.

I hope you get some resolution that you are all in agreement with...good luck

Emmzi

Dunroamin wrote: »

You do not recover from emphysema and you are extremely unlikely to live for another 20 years when you're already in your 80s!

I think that this chap could get better treatment for both his emphysema and depression but if he feels he wants to go when he's already of a great age then that it by no means selfish.

Selfish is when families can't let go when there are no other options.

I meant recover from his chest infection.

Too may people, when they lose their health, feel the loss of control badly; and this comes out as trying to control the people around them. If you let them, then they will, over and over again until there's no love there any more, just misery, and duty, and guilt.

If the family keep enabling his behaviour, he'll keep doing it. "Wanting to go" is not selfish; quite the opposite.

Having an aged brother round every single day for catering, when he could have a care worker provide it, is. Tying his family to him every day, is. Ignoring other options, is.