What More Can I do To Help My Son?

Pricivius

Presuming this is part of the ET claim, it is standard procedure for a company to request evidence of the disability before conceding it. They are not trying to be difficult or annoy you. Their lawyers will have asked them whether your son is disabled and how they know. They will have explained that your son didn't tell them originally (and possibly even ticked a box somewhere to say he wasn't?), and then when some issues arose, his mum came in and told them. Any documentary evidence they hold will be a couple of years old by now so the lawyers are simply doing their job in insisting that your son proves he is covered by the Equality Act 2010. Looking at it from the point of view of justice being served, your son must prove his claim and a major part of that is his status under the Equality Act 2010 as a disabled person. To be honest, this is totally to be expected. Once they have the evidence which shows he is disabled, they are likely to concede the point. If they refuse to, they may ask the Tribunal to order you to get an expert's report on your son's condition, or the Tribunal may order a pre-hearing review to be convened and the Tribunal will decide the point. Simple.

To be fair, I don't see why asking your son to prove his case in a legal sense is shocking - he is suing his company for money so he should have to back up all his claims. If it is as "cut and dried" as you suggest to provide proof, then I don't see what the issue is. This is the easy part!

I think you need to bear in mind that you have entered a legal process with hoops to jump through and procedures to be followed. It's not just a case of your son telling the Tribunal what happened so they can decide that the company was out of order. I am sure your solicitor will have gone through the process with you, but it wil involve a disclosure process whereby the parties will bounce back and forth digging up documents - they may withhold stuff that you think you should see and they may suggest there are things yoru son has that they haven't been shown etc... Once that is over with, you will then have to agree a bundle which could be another source of contention. After that, presuming you are in England and Wales, you will need to prepare witness statements for your son and anyone else who will be providing evidence on his behalf. These people all need to agree to attend at the Hearing, which is likely to be over several days and they will probably need to take time off work for the duration of it. Witness statements will have to be simultaneously exchanged with the company so you don't see theirs and they don't see yours in advance. And then you go to the hearing and a barrister will cross examine your son and all his witnesses. Please do not underestimate that this is a difficult, stressful, lengthy and frustrating process.

And throughout the whole process, your son wants to continue working with and for the people that he will be facing in Tribunal? That's difficult. What if one of his managers puts a completely incorrect and antagonistic statement into the Tribunal and your son has to work with them everyday and not be allowed to say anything but maintain professional relations? I know I would struggle! It is very difficult to work for a company that you are suing. I appreciate that on paper it should be perfectly doable and that justice should be done, but unfortunately human nature just doesn't work like that. The difficulty is, where does this all end?

Chr1s

Hi Googlewhacker and thank you for your comment. "I guess they are trying to argue that whilst he may have a disability he may NOT be covered by the equality act 2010.

To me its called...'digging a hole' "

I have to say that my initial reaction wasn't a positive one and still isn't, although the fact that they need to prove he is covered by the EA2010 is understandable ...

Chr1s

Hi Pricivius, Thank you very much for taking the time to reply as fully as you have, it is appreciated.

Yes the evidence of my sons disability was requested via the ET3. On reflection and after reading the previous response and yours, I can see that it is an obvious and reasonable request. And although I expect that a lot of what has been alleged by my son and other statements, will be denied/challenged etc I just didn’t expect them to question his disability. However I guess this is a taste of things to come and something to get used to.

Regarding your comment which states this is the easy part. After constantly researching the ins and outs of the ET, I unfortunately have to agree with you. I have been reading different cases, most of which had a different outcome to the outcome I predicted. These cases not only shows the emotional, financial and professional impact this can have on the individual/s, but also points out that there are no “safe cases”. I have also learnt that no matter how unfair things may be, that carries no weight, unless it is a point of law. Lessons such as these are hard to swallow, but nonetheless are lessons well learnt (on a personal level).

Yes we have had the process of the ET explained to us, so in regards to what the process consists of we have been made aware of how stressful it can be. However, being made aware of, and experiencing something are 2 completely different things. Although we understood from an outsiders point of view what the ET would consist of, this is obviously nothing compared to the impact it actually has. Again another lesson learnt…

Regarding my son wanting to work with these people. I don’t think my son wants to work with these people, more like he has no choice if he wants to remain employed and doing the job he enjoys. He enjoys his work and has been doing it for the last 3 years (since being relocated), and he doesn‘t want to be forced into unemployment. I guess the fact that he works alone in a warehouse at the back of the store, means, as usual, he is left alone for the whole of his shift, so contact with the people involved is minimal. If they stop the unwanted behaviour, then there would be no need for them to come into contact with him, as this involves them going out of their way to make contact. If they do continue the behaviour that has resulted in my son going to the ET, then as my son has previously demonstrated to the company, he is more than capable of acting professional when there are ongoing grievances. Personally I couldn’t do it, but as previously explained my son can. All he is doing is trying to get back to work, when he is well enough, with the reassurance that the people involved in the grievances and the bullying are dealt with appropriately and that there are no repeats of the treatment he has had to endure for quite a while. He followed all the internal grievance procedures to no avail, and contacted various departments within the company also to no avail. The ET really was the only option left open to him In response to your question where does all this end, to be truthful I don’t know, I really don‘t know. Believe me if I knew the solution I would be the first one to offer it.

Once again many thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.

Pricivius

I totally agree with your assessment of the Tribunal - the outcomes are so varied and often don't go how you expect. It can be very difficult for Claimants to see the wood for the trees when they are so emotionally involved in their own case and the heartfelt injustice they feel, so it is commendable. I wish more Claimants would do it, and it would avoid a lot of heartache.

Whilst I appreciate the following may not be what you want to read, there are a few points that stick out to me in your posts:

- It rings alarm bells that the Union have stepped away. This could simply be because you have brought the ET claim, but it appears they walked away before this? In my experience, Unions tend to see merit in even the weakest of claims and usually give every employee one shot at a fully-funded ET claim, if only to get them a few pounds in a nuisance settlement. Did they refuse to assist you with the claim or did you not ask them?

- Looking at this from the company's perspective without assigning any blame, your son has an incident at work which results in a manager raising a concern. In response to this incident, your son then has a further incident at work which resulted in another manager raises a concern. In response to these concerns being raised, your son then raises two grievances. As the company attempt to handle these grievances, your son then raises a further grievance against a third manager. Whilst the company are handling these grievances, your son files a claim in the ET. Whilst I appreciate you are only trying to get things sorted out, when you list the events like that, it doesn't look entirely reasonable.

- Following on from the last point, in an ideal world, companies would have employees who they didn't even know existed, who raise no issues and cause no problems. To the Company, right now your son is a pain in the backside troublemaker who is causing them a lot of time and money in dealing with all his issues. We can wrap that up in pretty paper as your son only trying to get the reasonable adjustments he believes he is entitled to and trying to stand up for his rights as a disabled person, underneath the shiny ribbon, he is now a troublemaker. The company is thinking about what happens next time someone says something out of turn (as people do), what happens when there is no one to cover a rest break, what happens if a manager has to speak to your son about an issue - will it all end in a string of grievances and another claim? No matter how justified any of the grievances or the claim are, they represent time and money that the company does not want or need to have to deal with.

- Regarding the claim, the point I made in my previous post about your son's witnesses should be considered. Will they be prepared to speak out against their employer in Tribunal? To take possibly 3 or 5 days off work unpaid for the hearing? To be cross-examined under oath by a barrister? There's not many people who would be prepared to do it.

Whilst it's impossible to put myself in your position, if I were you, I would have a sit down with my son and go through his options. The ET claim is likely to be stressful, frustrating and annoying - all things that are unlikely to help your son recover his confidence and self-assurance. Whilst he may be able to handle working in the vicinity of colleagues who are involved in the claim, is he prepared that they may not handle it so well? Is it realistic that he can return to his role and all will be fine?

1. Carry on fighting on all fronts.
2. Have a without prejudice off the record meeting with them to see if you can reach some form of amicable agreement to either wipe the slate clean and begin again, or call it a day and receive a small sum in settlement.

I would be very tempted to look at option 2, I think...

jc808

Chr1s wrote: »

and I believe she turned me down for the team leader position in the warehouse based on the fact that I do things by the book, which can cause a headache or two and as she said herself, because of my communication skills. She told me that I didn’t get the position of team leader in the warehouse because I don’t have good communication skills and that I was unable to manage a team of people, yet I have good enough communication skills to almost run the warehouse by myself for well over a year, train other G.A’s and managers, and deal with every other element of running the warehouse I.e. dealing with deliveries/drivers/stock control/yard/H&S, etc etc.

This post crystallises your sons arrogance in my opinion.

The fact is "management material" (Which is what he aspires to be in this endeavour) simply does not conduct itself as selfishly, as arrogantly nor as prickly as this.

If he is not getting promoted he needs to look within himself and evaluate his shortcomings (NOT in terms of his 'disabilities'). Only after this real introspection can he begin to blame others or his environment. And to do this in such a blunt, aggressive and obnoxious manner, your son fails to see that he is signing his own death warrant (Figuratively speaking) and the consensus in this thread that he should leave and start afresh elsewhere rings true.

Forget about holding his hand at disciplinaries or going on tours of his workplace. You should be giving this boy much firmer guidance or more actively encouraging him to leave this place that (For rightly or wrongly) holds so much ill will and bad blood both sides.

He will struggle to turn this situation around without severe cost to his blood pressure/ sanity IMHO - I think this charade should end...

marybelle01

jc808 wrote: »

This post crystallises your sons arrogance in my opinion.

The fact is "management material" (Which is what he aspires to be in this endeavour) simply does not conduct itself as selfishly, as arrogantly nor as prickly as this.

If he is not getting promoted he needs to look within himself and evaluate his shortcomings (NOT in terms of his 'disabilities'). Only after this real introspection can he begin to blame others or his environment. And to do this in such a blunt, aggressive and obnoxious manner, your son fails to see that he is signing his own death warrant (Figuratively speaking) and the consensus in this thread that he should leave and start afresh elsewhere rings true.

Forget about holding his hand at disciplinaries or going on tours of his workplace. You should be giving this boy much firmer guidance or more actively encouraging him to leave this place that (For rightly or wrongly) holds so much ill will and bad blood both sides.

He will struggle to turn this situation around without severe cost to his blood pressure/ sanity IMHO - I think this charade should end...

To be fair, and I don't doubt the OP won't like this being said, I can't see any evidence at all that the son wrote this, and I have doubts as to how far the OP's son is dictating the actions in any of this. If he is as capable as it is being made out on this thread, then I see no reason why he needs the constant intervention of his parents in telling his employers anything, but it seems that this intervention has been going on for some years now. It is relatively easy to see how a young man in his position can be persuaded that the approbation of his parents is based on him doing what they want him to do and not what he genuinely and truly wants to do himself. It is also easy to see how parents can persuade themselves that decisions have been independantly reached when in fact all they are hearing is what the young man believes they want to hear.

I am left wondering the extent to which the parents have contributed to what is now an awful mess, and whether any of this would have happened had they stayed out of it.

Chr1s

Thanks for your comments :0)

From an outsiders point of view I can understand the last 2 comments, so I'm not going to disagree.

Case started in late August, delayed after 3 days until October beginning of October(which has proved to be a godsend).

Right up to the morning of the hearing my son was willing to sit and sort things out, but as their solicitor said "Too much has happened", so they declined.

Fortunately for us, due to the delay in the case, we have been able to go through the bundle, which we hadn't done before the day the hearing was cancelled. And to be truthful, it has proved to be a real eye opener.

Thankfully the Employment Tribunal will go on the facts presented before them ...

Chr1s

Just to add my son has been back at work since last October and things have really improved leaps and bounds.

So has it been worth it up to date? You bet it has :0)

seven-day-weekend

I'm so glad for your son that it all got sorted as regards his work.

Chr1s

Thank you very much seven day weekend. So are we.

At one point everything seemed hopeless. There were points when we regretted not being firmer with our son, in regards to him just walking away. But he was so sure of everything, that we would have failed him as parents had we not backed him.

Investigations were carried out and no further action was taken against our son regarding the false allegations I mentioned previously and, 4 managers have been relocated.

He still works with everyone else and, he has no problems at all regarding anyone else. We're so glad that he can now go to work without worrying about the people who caused him so much upset (fingers crossed). This was the most important part to him.

Now we have the ET to face, but to be truthful, we have no worries concerning that :0)