What More Can I do To Help My Son?

Chr1s

Hi Nightingale and thank you for your suggestions and comments.

I agree with you in regards to the fact that my sons employers didn’t have to let my wife attend the meeting, let alone give them a tour of their warehouse. I do have to say that since I contacted the Group Personnel Managers office on the 27th March, the person covering for her, has been really proactive in arranging the return to work meeting.

Regarding the A2W that you and others have suggested. To be truthful we have a lot of things going on (normal life), so it was another thing I didn’t get around to doing. However, I have just followed the link you suggested in your post and printed out the A2W form on behalf of my son with the relevant details. So we will just have to wait to hear from them and follow their advice. Thank you for reminding me about this facility.

Regarding the grievances and investigation. One of the problems our son has/had is in regards to the way the grievances and investigation were dealt with in store, maybe it would help if I were to give you a little additional information.

Please remember that all of this is the final straw. Our son has been on the receiving end of unprofessional treatment for a long time and although the following may not seem that bad, X (PM) and Z (Senior Manager)have been involved with various incidences prior to this day. The following text in red are sections taken from our sons statement regarding the incidences on the 1st February (these have been edited to remove anything that may identify the person/s involved). When I came to work on Wednesday1st February another employee approached me and told me that Z had been going through my bag. This person also told me that the reason Z was doing this was because he suspected me of stealing.

When I approached Z I did so in a non threatening and aggressive way. As there was a time lapse of between 3 and 4 hours, so I had time to calm down. I went up to Z and asked him what he was doing going through my bag. He said that he could go through mine and anybody else
’s bag he wants to without permission. I then said you can’t go through my bag without my permission. He said he went through a bag because it wasn’t in a locker and it was a health and safety issue. I said I have been working in this warehouse for over two years and everybody knows that this is my bag, as I get it checked by security every time I enter and leave the store. I told him that it was far too big for the lockers and that this had never been a problem with anyone and that it had never been mentioned before. I also said that my bag had been in exactly the same position for over two years without causing a problem and without ever having someone go through it. I then said it is commonsense who the bag belonged to. He then told me I have no commonsense. He then told me to continue my delivery because I don’t do any work anyway. I then told him not to talk to me like that, and that if he continued I would refuse to do the delivery as he had just stated to me and in front of others that I did no work anyway and that I had no commonsense. At this point we were about 6 feet apart. Z then put his hand with palm facing me to block my face and then said talk to the hand. Following this I went to the office.
Our sons account of events is backed up by 3 witness statements.

10.30 am Son went to report the mornings incidences to the PM (X) straight away. The rest is taken from our sons statement. Immediately following the alleged incident on Wednesday 1st February I went to the office. I explained the situation to Y (Union Rep) as X wasn’t present. I told Y exactly what had happened. Y then went to checkout to put an announcement out for X to come to the confidential room urgently. X then came rushing into the confidential room. X asked what the emergency was about. I then asked her if I could talk to her. Without me saying another word X said I class an emergency as a fire or an injury. I was apologetic and I turned around and told her just because it wasn’t an emergency for her, didn’t mean it wasn’t an emergency for me. X then said I can’t just call for the personnel manager to go to the office when it suits me. Y then came into the room and told X that I had to talk to her. X said she was too busy, then they both walked back out of the room. After a couple of minutes Y came back into the room. She told me that X said that Z never knew whose bag it was so that’s why he searched it. I then left the office. The conversation between the PM and our son is backed by a witness statement.

This is another part of our sons statement; 11.30 am X came into the warehouse to throw the rubbish in the compactor. I approached her and said why is it that whenever I come to you with a problem concerning work you never sort it out and never have time to discuss them. I then said I was going to contact head office and go with a grievance. She then replied by saying that‘s all I ever do and that’s all I’m good at. I then said X it’s OK then if I go through your bag as your bag isn’t in a locker. She said she’s not having an argument about it. I then said I’m not arguing as it takes two to argue. She told me to walk away from her with aggression in her voice and with a threatening manner. I asked her not to talk to me like that. Without addressing me she walked away while talking on the phone to Z (the manager involved in my suspension and who I had just tried to speak to her about, for the second time, and she told me she didn‘t have the time). The sentence typed in black is also backed up in the statement given by the PM.

At 9a.m our son was called into the office and told that he was being suspended for alleged aggressive behaviour. He asked who made the allegation and he was told all would be discussed in a meeting to be held on the 6th. He then asked if he could explain what had happened the previous morning as the PM had refused listen to him, he was told that he could also discuss this on the 6th. He was told to leave the store and not to return until the 6th as it could interfere with the investigation if he were to bump into somebody who was involved with it. He then left he store.

On the 6th my son, accompanied by my wife, attended an investigation meeting in which our son explained the incidences on the 1st. He was informed that there had been two incidences of aggressive behaviour made by X and Z. Neither my son or wife were allowed to read the statements, although bits were read out from X’s statement and her witness (although we have since been told that he should have been copies of these prior to the meeting so that he could dispute them if the need arises, and he should have been given details about the meeting so that he could prepare himself properly). At the end of the meeting and because of the additional information my son had disclosed during the meeting, he was given a further suspension so that he could continue with the investigation. Just before leaving the room my wife asked if she could hand in 2 grievances that our son had taken out against 2 managers. She explained that she didn’t want them handled internally as she felt that any decision would be biased and that she would only leave them with him if they would be handled by an external PM, otherwise she would sent them to head office. She also said that she felt that if they were to be handled internally it would interfere with the investigation, which would in turn amount to unnecessary stress for our son. My wife and son were then told to leave the room so that he could get some advice. Ten minutes later they were called back into the room and told that the grievances would remain sealed and handed over to an external PM. After being given this reassurance my wife handed in 2 grievances which were in sealed envelopes. Following this they left the building.

11th February my son receives a phone call from the Store Manager (W), inviting him into a meeting on Monday 13th. He told our son that he should think about carrying on with the grievances as continuing with them would result in his relocation to a different store, and could even result in a disciplinary or dismissal. My son made it clear that he was going to carry on with the grievances, he was again told to think about it and, that the store manager would see him 10 o’clock Monday morning.

13th February my son and wife attend a meeting following Saturdays phone call. Before the meeting begins my son hands W the following:

Date: Saturday 11th February 2012



RE: Telephone Conversation Today At Approximately 3 p.m.



Dear W,

Today I received a telephone call from you regarding my returning to work.

You told me that if I didn’t go with the grievances I would attend a meeting on Monday, and I could return to work on Tuesday without any action/s being taken. You also told me that if I went with the grievances I would be sent to the xxxx Store to work while the investigation was being carried out and, that I could get a disciplinary or my dismissal.

I let you know immediately that I wanted to go ahead with the grievances. I also let you know immediate that xxxx would be too far for me to travel as I live in xxxxx. You told me to think about whether I wanted to continue with the grievances and to let you know on Monday during the meeting at 10 a.m.

You also told me that you had concluded that I could have “Stewed” over the xxxx incident. I want it known that this is NOT the case. X refused to listen to me regarding a serious issue, that issue could have been avoided prior to that day. She also refused to listen to me when I had been verbally attacked, choosing to listen to Z instead. As I sated in the investigation meeting there are CCTV in that area so this can easily be backed up by looking at them I.e. X said I leant through a cage at her, CCTV will prove there was no cage, She said that I approached her aggressively, again I am sure that this will be discredited by CCTV.

X has not only filed a false allegation against me, but she has repeatedly refused to listen to concerns I have had at work, and I believe she turned me down for the team leader position in the warehouse based on the fact that I do things by the book, which can cause a headache or two and as she said herself, because of my communication skills. She told me that I didn’t get the position of team leader in the warehouse because I don’t have good communication skills and that I was unable to manage a team of people, yet I have good enough communication skills to almost run the warehouse by myself for well over a year, train other G.A’s and managers, and deal with every other element of running the warehouse I.e. dealing with deliveries/drivers/stock control/yard/H&S, etc etc.

I have approached X, via letters and in person to sort out a number of issues since November, she has refused to not only listen to me, but also to help me. My mother has also tried to talk to X via the phone, and letters, but these have also been ignored. The grievances I have against X include other events and not just the one that has occurred. I really believe that X has failed in carrying out her professional role as a personnel manager and that has resulted in me not only suffering unduly at the hands of various managers, but it also prevented me being promoted to team leader. I intend to carry on with the grievances I have against both X and Z because they have both acted unprofessionally and unless someone stands up and says something, they will continue to treat me, and others the way they are, and that is not acceptable. All of us, whether G.A’s or managers should be treated with respect and listened to when we have serious concerns, unfortunately X chose to listen to the managers “version” of events after she refused to listen to mine. A few hours later she files a false statement, along with Z saying I used aggressive/threatening behaviour towards them. Again this is NOT acceptable behaviour.

Yours Sincerely

After this the meeting took place. I wont bore you with the details but it lasted over 5 hours. Over 30 requests to continue with the grievances were ignored by both W and the union rep, after being told he was going on a further suspension, was going to be relocated to a store which would take him 90 minutes to get to (he can’t drive as a complication of his disability) after being advised by the Union rep to let things go, yet again, after repeated excuses were being made to defend both of the managers involved in the grievances, after refusing to let my wife assist my son as explained in the ACAS guidelines and finally after my son had a physical break down, my wife decided enough was enough. She told our son to agree to drop the grievances and within 15 minutes the meeting was brought to a close.

Within an hour of the meeting, I contacted HR informing them of what had just happened and that my son did not want to drop the grievances. Not only did he not want to drop the two he already had ongoing, but he also wanted to open one up against W for the way he dealt with the meeting and because he didn’t follow the correct procedures, therefore putting our son at a disadvantage. This was all repeated via email and recorded delivery. We didn’t go with the ET until 3 weeks after we had heard nothing back about the first 2 grievances and all the problems that had been raised in both meetings (although our son was still working in a very hostile environment), so there was plenty of times to get things sorted. I hope it’s plain to see we have really tried to get this sorted out fairly within the company, but we have been unsuccessful.

Regarding is there no way back from the ET, of course there is, there’s always a way (well I‘d like to think so). As my son has stated from the beginning in addition to all the things he mentioned in the R2W meeting, he wants those mentioned within his complaints to address the ongoing problems that have been going on. He wants them to admit they have lied, to explain why they have treated him the way they have and to reassure him that he will be treated as fairly as the rest of his colleagues. He wants all the lies that have resulted in him receiving false allegations, removed from his file, because although he loves doing the job he’s doing at the moment, hopefully within a few years he will be ready to move on, and with false allegations against him, he wouldn’t stand a chance of being employed by someone else. Without doing this there is no way forward because like before, things will be simply swept under the carpet. If our son withdraws the ET before anything is resolved properly it’s not going to look good if he has to reopen it because things are reoccurring.

Savvy_Sue

Obviously by now you'll have had the meeting, so I hope you'll do an update at some point. I hope it went well, but ...

I don't want to do long-distance diagnosis, and it may just be that I don't know enough about developmental dyspraxia, and I'm not saying that the way your son has been treated is right, but ... reading your last post I'm left thinking that your son sounds a bit like the way DS1 used to be - he has Asperger Syndrome.

I used to describe him as having a very well developed sense of INjustice: he was very clear about wanting life to be fair, and he also knew what 'fair' looked like to him - only it wasn't necessarily fair for the rest of the family, it was just what DS1 felt would be fair to him.

And we did actually have a conversation one day about what our responsibilities as parents were, in this context of fairness. DS1 felt that we should make sure life was always fair for him, but I said no, my job as a parent was to teach him that life is NOT always fair, and you have to deal with it.

So, you ask what more you can do to help your son, and I'd say, in the context of your last post, moving on from here, you do need to help him cope better with other people, perhaps especially with other people who don't necessarily do things 'by the book'. You say he's had strategies in the past which have helped him cope with life, and it sounds as if becoming more resilient and more flexible and knowing when to let things drop - at least for the moment - would serve him well.

Because honestly, if your union rep says "let it drop" then IMO there is little to be gained by pursuing something. And if someone says "I don't have time for this right now" there is little to be gained by pushing for their time now.

jc808

Not being funny but accompanying your son to work disciplinaries....

TOURS of the flipping WAREHOUSE???

Id be mortified if I was your kid - I think he needs to handle this alone
and i agree with other posters that its best your son leaves this job, too much has happened...

jc808

Chr1s wrote: »

Hi Nightingale and thank you for your suggestions and comments.

I agree .... look good if he has to reopen it because things are reoccurring.

Im sorry, I agree with the company, your boy does come across as agressive/ argumentative IMO

Chr1s

Hi Savvy Sue and thank you for your comment.

Yes the meeting has taken place and to be truthful I can see exactly what my son has been up against. The only adjustments agreed to were 1) to ensure that our son receives his breaks, 2) to provide him with a named manager who he can go to if he needed additional help in the warehouse. When my son pointed out some of the concerns he had regarding his returning to work, these were ignored. My son was told any other issues he had, had to be reported to the same manager who pressured him into dropping the 2 grievances and who defended the unprofessional behaviour of his managers. So in a nutshell my son has to go back into the same hostile environment, with the same issues which has caused him to be where he is now. Pointless.

Regarding your second paragraph and
Asperger Syndrome. I understand what you are saying, as sometimes the conditions (dysphasia, developmental delay and dyspraxsia) my son has can overlap with Asperger Syndrome, although this is not the case with him. There have been many occasions when we have had to tell our son that he has been wrong and that life isn‘t fair, and that maybe he is looking far too deep into things. If we didn’t do that we would have failed him as parents.

As previously stated before all this started our son had acquired the necessary skills to deal with the situations you have mentioned and everyday life. The fact that he is now in this position is as a result of the ongoing negative treatment he has been receiving at his place of work and, not to do with his disabilities (not that you are saying this). The problems is when someone is labelled with certain types of disabilities it becomes a case of whatever problems they have are down to the disability, whatever they say is down to the disability, whatever they do is down to the disability and, as a result of this the issues raised by them aren‘t taken seriously or addressed. The fact remain that he shouldn’t have been treated the way he has treated, disability or no disability (I know you‘re not saying this).

Anyway I’m sorry for my rant, I’m just extremely disappointed in the meeting and lack of progress being made.

Chr1s

　

　

　

Hi jc808 and thank you for your comments.

My son has never been accompanied at any disciplinary meetings, as he has never had one in 5 years.

The fact that my son and wife were offered and given a tour of the warehouse was a very generous gesture on behalf of the store manager who held the return to work meeting, which was appreciated by both my wife and son.

He has been accompanied to an investigation meeting and meeting surrounding grievances. I guess the fact that my son has asked for us to accompany and support him during these meetings is because in previous meetings his points have never been put across, so although you would be mortified, our son finds this very supportive. Our son is now lacking in many of the skills that would allow him to communicate effectively. Would you object to a deaf person being accompanied by someone who did sign language ? Would you object to a blind person using brail or a guide dog ? Would you object to a translator being used if the person wasn’t able to understand English ? I would hope not. Like the examples given, my son has the right to be accompanied by someone who is able to put his point across because he now lacks the skills in order to do this effectively.

Regarding my son leaving his job as too much has happened. My son has worked in this place for 5 years, the people who have been causing the problems have been working there a few months, and the problems began almost immediately. It amazes me when people suggest that my son leaves against his will, we are not going to force our son to leave, if he doesn’t want to. If he left now, because of the false allegations against him, any future employer would (understandably) think twice about giving him a job. So he leaves and walks straight into unemployment, I don’t think so.

I must admit that I can’t understand why you say that my son comes across aggressive/argumentative. If stating facts, not allowing people to mistreat him and questioning unethical practices is seen as aggressive and argumentative, then yes I agree with you, he is both of those things. Besides, without all the facts I can understand why you have jumped to this conclusion, hence the reason we have places like the Employment Tribunal so that ALL the facts can be heard and a fair judgement made.

Savvy_Sue

Thanks for your responses Chr1s, I'm glad you took what I said in the spirit in which it was intended!

The incidents you recounted do make your son sound argumentative, and it is easy for those on the receiving end to interpret this as aggressive - DH can be argumentative, and other people can find this very intimidating. Usually he knows when to stop, but sometimes ... especially when he doesn't think people are listening to what he is actually saying ... well, he's like a dog with a bone!

And can I ask too, is your son a big lad? Because again, I've known a few men who can easily be perceived as aggressive, even though they wouldn't actually hurt a fly, because when they're arguing about something they become quite excited and repetitive and loud and demanding of a response to their argument OR agreement / backing down from the other person. And when someone who is much taller and broader than you is loud and repetitive and demanding ... well, it's not a fun experience to be opposite them.

But moving on: if your son has been put back into an environment he finds hostile and intimidating, if he has no confidence in the manager he has to go to, and if he doesn't want to end up unemployed, then voluntarily looking round for another job now might be the best advice you could give him. You're not telling him he MUST leave, although his GP might advise it, and you might think he'd be better off out of that situation. You're just suggesting that he's no longer as happy as he was, and he might be better off elsewhere.

There is no harm, in any event, in looking around at what else is out there. The answer may be 'not a lot', but there is no harm in looking, and sowing the idea in his head. At least IMO.

Because you say - and I agree - he wants to work and is better off working. However if his health breaks down and he is signed off again for an extended period, he could find himself dismissed anyway.

And he wouldn't have to drop the ET, although the employer would be perfectly at liberty to mention it in any reference, which could create an interesting situation.

None of this is easy stuff, and none of it is necessarily fair. It is however the way things are ... and helping your son come to terms with this probably is the best you can do for him.

Chr1s

Hi Savvy Sue and thanks again for your comments, most of which I can see your point and some of which have been very helpful in helping me to see things from a different angle.

I can now see, looking at the parts which I have cut and pasted, why my son may come across as argumentative, but I think this is more to do with my editing skills. So I guess I can’t really expect an informed opinion based on the information I have given in my previous post, so I can‘t really complain or be offended when comments are made based only on that information.

My son is 5’9” and almost weighs10stone, with a BMI of 17%. He’s what most people would describe as skinny. To be truthful I think if he had been a bigger lad, maybe he wouldn’t have had the amount of problems he’s been having, for the exact reasons you have stated. As it happens all of the people (except one) involved in the issues are all quite a bit larger than my son ...

Sue, if my son was capable of looking for another job, if his health wasn’t as bad as it is now, if his dysphasia and dyspraxsia wasn’t having such an effect on his life, if he didn’t have false allegations against him in his file (which would influence any future employer), then maybe there would have been a point where he could have looked for work elsewhere. My son always believed there was a way to sort things out, and maybe stupidly, I also believed it was possible, but I can now see that it is not. Believe me if he was capable of looking for work elsewhere, after Saturdays meeting I would have strongly suggested it to him.

In hindsight we should have got him to leave in 2009 when he had no health problems and he was still able to go to communicate effectively and had enough confidence to go on interviews, but he didn’t want to leave, so we worked with the company to try and sort things out. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, if only we had knowledge of it when it was needed...

I, along with my son went to the Dr’s again this morning and, he has now been given another month off work. This whole mess seems to be never ending.

Chr1s

I wondered if somone could give me some advice on the following. We have now been informed that the company my son works for is now disputing the fact that my son has a disability. Unbelievable.

My question is this. The fact is that the company were made aware of my sons disability in 2009 and we do have a paper trail to back this up. They even put certain measures into place to help assist our son, until the PM who was dealing with our son left the company. In addition to this we have a Dr report that states when he was diagnoised at the age of 3 and that it is a long term disability (as it has no cure). We have his proof that his education was supported by a special needs statement and the letters from the CDU clinic where he underwent the tests which diagnoised him. Would this not be enough to prove his disabilty and f not can anyone suggest any other way that we can go about getting the "proof" they need.

To be truthful I am shocked and this is not a problem I would never have anticipated.

Any help/advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Googlewhacker

I guess they are trying to argue that whilst he may have a disability he may NOT be covered by the equality act 2010.

To me its called...'digging a hole'