wrote to my local mp about esa/atos

Denny_Crane

I finally got a response from my MP whom I wrote to on 1st Feb.
The letter is from the DWP. Not sure if its a good sign or a bad one
(Or even if I have put myself up to be one of the first to be tested lol)

Three page letter and a lot of it the usual guff, but a couple of interesting lines.

"The assesment for PIP will look at how well people are able to participate in society by assessing their ability to carry out a series of key everyday activities. Priority will be awarded in the benefit based on how well people can carry these out and the degree to which they need help from other people or to use aids and appliances.

The proposed assesment criteria weightings and entitlement thresholds for the Mobility component
(I have never applied for the rest of DLA and the letter actually is an individual based response, go figure!)
are intended to reflect and differentiate between the barriers and extra costs faced by individuals who require extra support to get around. They ensure that individuals whose ability to get around is severely impacted by impairments affects either physical or non-physical ability can receive the componenet at the enhanced rate.

Individuals who need to use aids and appliances to move short distances can recieve the standard rate, whilst those who need a wheelchair or similar device to do so will receive the enhanced rate.

In his letter Mr ..... (Me) referes to the length of time it would take him to travel to
(mistake on the letter as to town centre as opposed to what they out down which was my address!)
when compared to another person and the potential damage he may cause himself
(I have Charcot foot and long walks causes damage to the bones which are already brittle)

It may be helpful to explain that the individuals ability to carry out the activities detailed within the assessment will include consideration of whether they can do so safely, reliably, repeatedly in a timely manner

Where individuals are unable to complete activities because of issues such as pain and fatique or where it would take them a long time to do so, it will be considered that the individual cannot carry out the activity at all, Therefore if an individual is not able to move less than 50 meters without severe pain, they might be assesed as needing a wheelchair to be able to do so-even if they do not actually use one-and as such be entitled to the enhanced rate of the Mobility component. This would of course depend on a detailed assesment of their cirumstances."

Then in another paragraph:-

"Finally in relation to Motability, I would like to reassure both yourself (My MP) and Mr .. that we are determined to ensure that existing arrangements for passported benefits and schemes are maintained within PIP whereever possible.

We are currently working with Motability to ensure that PIP and the rate of the mobility componenet that should apply will support the scheme, but again, no final decision has yet been made"

Richie-from-the-Boro

Maintaining the DLA passport to Motability after PIP was always a given,and never in question .... its jumping through the new assessment / descriptors criteria to get to the passport in the first place that is going to be much more difficult.

Initial draft here
Second draft here

The PIP system like my assertion on the DLA system, is not~fit~for~purpose, and an eventual like its predecessor will wipe out the claimed treasury savings. Given the debacle that is DLA it should have been even more vital to get the assessment right so that the benefit is targeted at those who need it without having to resort to a successful appeal, but the criteria / descriptors and its delivery host means the integrity of the delivery of the benefit will continue to fill the appeal courts.

As regards the descriptors effect on 'neuropathic osteoarthropathy' see the section on 'Virtually unable to walk flow chart'


........................ right, extra shovel of coal on t'fire.......... and the Chelsea match ITVHD

GCP02

ok thanks for that

Ellejmorgan

i had my atos interrogation today, the doc wasn't interested in anything I said, the appointment was made for a time when i had my kids despite me asking for a different time, the doc then moans I've got 3 kids with me..I'm a sick lone parent..hardly my fault is it..
Am just waiting now to be told i'm no longer in the WRAG, only waiting for major surgery..
It's all a joke to them..

cit_k

Denny_Crane wrote: »

I finally got a response from my MP whom I wrote to on 1st Feb.
The letter is from the DWP. Not sure if its a good sign or a bad one
(Or even if I have put myself up to be one of the first to be tested lol)

Three page letter and a lot of it the usual guff, but a couple of interesting lines.

"The assesment for PIP will look at how well people are able to participate in society by assessing their ability to carry out a series of key everyday activities. Priority will be awarded in the benefit based on how well people can carry these out and the degree to which they need help from other people or to use aids and appliances.

The proposed assesment criteria weightings and entitlement thresholds for the Mobility component
(I have never applied for the rest of DLA and the letter actually is an individual based response, go figure!)
are intended to reflect and differentiate between the barriers and extra costs faced by individuals who require extra support to get around. They ensure that individuals whose ability to get around is severely impacted by impairments affects either physical or non-physical ability can receive the componenet at the enhanced rate.

Individuals who need to use aids and appliances to move short distances can recieve the standard rate, whilst those who need a wheelchair or similar device to do so will receive the enhanced rate.

In his letter Mr ..... (Me) referes to the length of time it would take him to travel to
(mistake on the letter as to town centre as opposed to what they out down which was my address!)
when compared to another person and the potential damage he may cause himself
(I have Charcot foot and long walks causes damage to the bones which are already brittle)

It may be helpful to explain that the individuals ability to carry out the activities detailed within the assessment will include consideration of whether they can do so safely, reliably, repeatedly in a timely manner

Where individuals are unable to complete activities because of issues such as pain and fatique or where it would take them a long time to do so, it will be considered that the individual cannot carry out the activity at all, Therefore if an individual is not able to move less than 50 meters without severe pain, they might be assesed as needing a wheelchair to be able to do so-even if they do not actually use one-and as such be entitled to the enhanced rate of the Mobility component. This would of course depend on a detailed assesment of their cirumstances."

Then in another paragraph:-

"Finally in relation to Motability, I would like to reassure both yourself (My MP) and Mr .. that we are determined to ensure that existing arrangements for passported benefits and schemes are maintained within PIP whereever possible.

We are currently working with Motability to ensure that PIP and the rate of the mobility componenet that should apply will support the scheme, but again, no final decision has yet been made"

If any parts dont apply to you (such as dla when you say you never claimed for it) then dont let it drop, write back and demand (politely) to know why they cannot answer a simple question, why they are replying with rubbish.

Go through each point your not happy with and explain why, and demand they explain their lies etc.

murphybear5

To Cit-k

Centre I was assessed in is in Exeter

Report said I should be fit for work in 6 months. I certainly won't be fit for work by then, My Consultant says up to a year. I was placed in WRAG and got a phone call to register with the firm who does the work focused whatever they are on behalf of DWP. He asked lots of silly questions, classic being what were my thoughts on career progression - I had just told him it was extremely unlikely I would be fully fit for work before retirement (tee hee). He said I wasn't close enough or they could consider it, whatever that means.

I got a letter about my first work interview, it arrived about an hour before it was due. I phoned and politely told them what I thought, they apologised and said they send another appointment letter, I' m still waiting
:rotfl:
:rotfl:

cit_k

murphybear5 wrote: »

To Cit-k

Centre I was assessed in is in Exeter

Report said I should be fit for work in 6 months. I certainly won't be fit for work by then, My Consultant says up to a year. I was placed in WRAG and got a phone call to register with the firm who does the work focused whatever they are on behalf of DWP. He asked lots of silly questions, classic being what were my thoughts on career progression - I had just told him it was extremely unlikely I would be fully fit for work before retirement (tee hee). He said I wasn't close enough or they could consider it, whatever that means.

I got a letter about my first work interview, it arrived about an hour before it was due. I phoned and politely told them what I thought, they apologised and said they send another appointment letter, I' m still waiting
:rotfl:
:rotfl:

Fingers crossed they dont impose a sanction for not attending, they can be stupid that way.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Richie-from-the-Boro wrote: »

Appeal I assume you mean ? If so the appeal system is almost on the brink of collapse, so much so that the GOV have had to split the three person rule to a half day with three people working independently on paper appeals, only then joining together for the three person panel for oral cases. Welfare [(1) all] appeals have risen by 72% and [(2) IB / ESA] by a 'boggleing' 167% in the last four years, from:

- 242,800 (2008/09)
- 418,500 (2010/11)

I can't REM off hand but the 100+ new Judges appointed to take up the slack in welfare tribunals sitting on Saturdays was a staggering extra burden on thge taxpayer.

With the assault on the welfare system only just beginning with ESA/IB coversions and PIP and UC just around the corner in 2013 the judiciary are predicting benefit appeals at 644,000 for the 14/15 year, that's an 165% increase for the taxpayer to fork out for.

It is, as you yourself say, a fact that most [50%+] defective decisions are overturned at appeal, though that rises to nearer 75% where specialist 'welfri's' are involved with the appeal preparation. The fact that this figure is so high is the reason for my constant assertion that the process is not~fit~for~purpose, and an eventual wiping out of the claimed treasury savings. Put this way its not an emotional 'whine or bleat' from the disgruntled but an inarguable mathematical fact that throwing yet more money at the chaos that is LiMA / ATOS is an inevitable waste of time and money.

Instead of de-funding and engineering the closure of CAB and other 'welfri' / legal support specialists for appeals they should direct funding to them to resolve the disputes at a much earlier and cost effective point. It won't change the figure of 50%+ that the GOV are losing appeals by, but it will drastically reduce the cost to the taxpayer and in so doing give much earlier 'peace of mind' to the poor sod having to go through the trauma that is the appeal process.

At about £279 per appeal and using the Tribunal Judiciary forecast figures that's three quarters of a bi££ion pounds spent on appeals by 2014 / 2015, most of it overturned in the courts

Edit & Update - see Hansard 9 July 2012 : Column 63W

So the extra 100 Judges appointed at whatever cost led to 40.8k more sitting days in 2011-2012 which was 14.7k more than 2010-2011, so why are there 145k cases still outstanding ? even given adjournments and postponements that's one heck of a figure !.

Back to Hansard 63W

Grayling: There are currently 20,7k ESA initial referrals open and awaiting an assessment that are in excess of 13 weeks from the date that the questionnaire was returned.
Greatrex: How many people have lodged an appeal to a work capability assessment decision but have yet to receive a hearing.
Grayling: The requested information is not available - """gerraway - that's a new one - not !"""

- anyone want to crunch the numbers for me ?

BTW rogerblack - the ESA [stat table] outcomes for 24th July are here

[Deleted User]

To those who think ATOS assessments are a fair and reliable assessment of whether a person is fit to work.., and anyone who says otherwise is either a disgruntled refused applicant, benefit fraudster or hopelessly biased against the benefit assessment process, perhaps they'd take the time to look at these two programmes released on two different channels within a week of each other.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lldrc/Panorama_Disabled_or_Faking_It/

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od

I've just found out that ATOS has been awarded the bulk of the contracts to conduct assessments for PIP, the 'benefit' that all people presently receiving DLA will be changed over to in the next three years. God help my autistic son who will be in the 16-19 age group.

wouldbeqaulitymoneysaver

Same here, the way ATOS carry out their so-called Assessments is beyond belief.:mad::mad:
He has forwarded the email onto Chris Grayling.
He has also signed the EDM requesting a debate on it.
(I am always signing Petitions, emailing my MP doing my bit):beer: