Capital 2 Coast Security - Parking Tickets - Portsmouth (Gunwharf)

moonklash

Hello there,

I use a visitors permit to park in the residential area of Gunwharf Quays Portsmouth.

I park in the residential area frequently with my permit fixed to the window. On Tuesday I returned to my car to find I'd been issued a ticket by Capital2Coast claiming I parked in the car park for 96 hours.

96 hours is 4 days, which means I would need to have parked in the car park since Friday. In fact I left work on Friday, drove to Whiteley in the evening (I gave a lift to a friend so I have a witness), drove home for the weekend. At the weekend I left my lights on and a neighbour left an answerphone message to tell me. On Monday I parked in the car park, leaving by 6pm and on Tuesday I parked in the car park, leaving at 8pm. There is no way I parked in the car park for 96 hours.

I've copied and pasted all of the emails I've had with Capital 2 Coast below, however to summarise in case you get bored reading them: they claim I've broken the terms and conditions (which I haven't) and turned down my appeal. What can I do?

[FONT=&quot]From:[FONT=&quot] Stuart Clark
Sent: 20 March 2012 20:52
To: 'info@capital2coast.co.uk'
Subject: Parking Ticket 10306[/FONT][/FONT]

Dear Sir or Madam,

Throughout the week, a friend allows me to use their visitors parking permit to park in the residential area of Gunwharf Quays. When I park here I usually arrive at around 9am and depart by around 5pm.

On getting back to my car this evening I was alarmed to discover a parking ticket had been issued claiming I had overstayed my parking by 96 hours, which is not the case:
· In no place, not on the permit or on the signs in the car park, does it state there is a maximum period for which anyone may park, which means this ticket is not valid as there is nothing to indicate any restrictions.
· In no place does it state that there is a minimum “no returns” period.
· I did not park in the car park for 96 hours. The ticket was issued at 16:02 on 20/03/2012 and stated I had stayed for 96 hours. 96 hours is four days, which means my car would have needed to be in the car park since Friday 16/03/2012. This is not the case – I drove to Whitely on the evening of 16/03/2012, returned to Clanfield that evening and did not use the car park again until yesterday – 19/03/2012 – most certainly not 96 hours. In addition I parked in a different place today than Friday, which demonstrates I left the car park. I have witnesses to place me AND my car in both Clanfield and Whitely. When I use the residential ca park I arrive at the car park in the morning and depart in the evening. Any evidence to the contrary would need to prove I had stayed for 96 hours without leaving the car park. I do not live or stay in Portsmouth or Gunwharf Quays, I drive my car home every evening – it is not possible for me to have stayed for the duration you have stated.
· Even if you have photographs of my car parked in the same position, this does not prove that I did not leave the car park. Any such evidence would need to be video and demonstrate I had stayed longer than the minimum period which (a) I haven’t and (b) there is no minimum period as no minimum period is specified on the signs or the permit. As I DID leave the car park, such evidence does not exist.

I therefore consider your parking ticket to be erroneous, invalid, and potentially illegal. I expect you to cancel this parking ticket and I expect to be able to continue parking in the visitors car park without any further threats, fines, or intimidation. Should I not hear back within 24 hours I will be taking my case to both the local authorities and the media.

If you wish to discuss this you may email me at this address, or call me on ******. Please note that I will be driving for most of tomorrow so if I am unable to answer please leave a message with an 02 number – I will not be calling expensive 08 numbers as it’s clear your business is designed to steal money from innocent people, something I do not intend to contribute towards.

Regards,

Stuart Clark.

I later sent a second email confirm my address (which they requested) and with a photograph of the sign where no limits are advertised:



Here's the response I received today:

Dear Mr Clark,
Re: Parking Ticket Notice Number **** (Vehicle: ****)
Site: Gunwharf
Issue date: 20/03/2012
Further to your email of appeal received on 21/03/2012 regarding the above parking ticket.
We note your comments; however, when this Parking Ticket Notice was issued this vehicle
was in contravention of the agreed terms and conditions for all users of this site. Your appeal
has been reviewed the patrol officers photographs and pocket notes (as applicable) have all
been taken into account.
You are in breach of the visitors parking by overstaying the maximum of 96 hours visitor
parking. This would of been in your friends tenancy agreement.
We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Ticket Notice as it was issued correctly and
you are required to make a payment of £40 to reach us by 05/04/2012 or £80 to reach us by
19/04/2012 in order to avoid Debt Recovery Proceedings; incurring additional costs.Payments
can be made by cheque or postal order - payable to Capital 2 Coast Security Ltd, or on our
website - www.capital2coast.co.uk
Yours sincerely,

I clearly wasn't in contravention of any limits and in no way did I park in the car park for 96 hours! I find Capital 2 Coast's claims ridiculous, and they clearly have no evidence to prove I didn't leave the car park because I DID leave the car park!

My reply:

From: Stuart Clark
To: "info@capital2coast.co.uk" <info@capital2coast.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, 22 March 2012, 9:27
Subject: Re: Parking Ticket Notice No. 10306


Dear Sir or Madam,


> We note your comments; however, when this Parking Ticket Notice was issued this vehicle
was in contravention of the agreed terms and conditions for all users of this site.


No terms and conditions are publicised on the site, therefore there are no limits to how long we may park.




> You are in breach of the visitors parking by overstaying the maximum of 96 hours visitor
> parking. This would of been in your friends tenancy agreement.



I have not parked in the car park for 96 hours, and I demand to see all evidence including CCTV footage which demonstrates I was. I have evidence and witnesses to prove my car was in Whiteley on Friday night and in Clanfield on Saturday, which demonstrates your claim is bogus and this is an attempt at extortion.


I expect to be sent a copy of all CCTV footage. Under the data protection act I am entitled to this - failure to provide this is illegal.



Regards,


Stuart Clark.

What else can I do? I don't see why I should have to pay a fine when I've not broken any rules! I'd refuse point blank but a) I'm worried about any consequences and b) I still need to park there for work! ANY advice on what action I can take, if there are any governing bodies I can contact and what I can do next would really be appreciated!

vax2002

I can answer this for you:
thankyou for your correspondence we have consider your appeal carefully and the result of your appeal is:
Appeal Denied
You must now pay the increased charge of :

You may ask how can I answer that ?
The Answer is because this is a complicated scam that impersonates authority and you have been taken in by it !
They are a private company with no more authority to fine you than the local womens knitting club for wearing a blue jumper on red jumper charity day.

Your first mistake was contacting them, now they know they have a live fish.
My advice is IGNORE THEM.
Keep Ignoring them.
they will send lots of silly letters and impersonate other types of authority such as solicitors and debt collectors then give up and look for another mug.
You can expect a few extra letters as they now think they are dealing with someone taking them seriously ...

moonklash

Thanks Vax,

I really appreciate the advise! My second mistake was sending them my address - they replied to my first email to say they needed my address to process my appeal. I feel a bit stupid now - I live with my elderly parents and I'm worried that if Capital 2 Coast try taking action against me, they're the ones that'll suffer, especially as they now know where I live

I was hoping to sort things out with Capital 2 Coast as ideally I need to keep parking there for work. I've just found the MSE parking ticket guide - I'll make a complaint to the landowner and to the BPA and then just ignore any further messages I guess!

Strider590

They have no right to fine you, it's merely an invoice and you don't have to pay as you did not enter into a contract with this company.

At most they could prosecute for civil trespass, any claim of this would be limited to damages or losses caused in the area by your vehicle, which they would of course have to prove conclusively in a court of law.

vax2002

The BPA are a private Club of "crooks" that they pay in to to make them look legit, they will just write back supporting the member, more fake authority I am afraid.
The landowner will be in on the scam as well as Private parking scammers bid for the work by giving a percentage to the landowners in return, so they are not going to be interested.
So as said IGNORE or REGRET !
Ignore means exactly that, IGNORE, not write to others.
All your parents will get will be silly letters sent to you.

Strider590

vax2002 wrote: »

Ignore means exactly that, IGNORE, not write to others.
All your parents will get will be silly letters sent to you.

Juts don't let them open them, parents being parents they'll panic when they see the threatening letters.

Additionally I suggest finding somewhere else to park, because if:

a) You pay up.... They'll see you as an easy target and try to milk more money from you buy clamping it or towing it away.

b) You don't pay.... They'll see your car again and have it clamped or towed, then hold you to ransom.

give_them_FA

Stuart:

You made the mistake (which a lot of people do) of playing their game. As Vax says, they PRETEND to have authority. They model themselves on those who do, such as a Council or Police.

In fact they have no authority whatsoever. As you rightly point out, the issue of this invoice is based upon a mistake. Whether it is a deliberate mistake (which has been known with parking scammers; one company was prosecuted and fined in excess of £20,000 for lying) remains to be seen.

However, you do not owe them one penny. You did nothing wrong, and they have no right at all to try and fine you.

The reason they press is because you have, by appealing, played their game, and sent the message that you are taking them seriously, and are accepting they have some sort of authority. In their eyes, they now have only to refuse your appeal, and you will pay.

This is a scam, pure and simple. Read all the other threads on this forum.

At the very least, get rid of them by ignoring all further correspondence. Don't contact them again, and don't reply to anything they send you. You didn't make the best of starts, but now that you have been put right, you can deal with them.

In the alternative you can line them up to pay you if they decide to continue to try to scam you. It is called claiming damages for unlawful harassment. Let me know if you are interested.

Otherwise, just realise; these companies survive entirely on bullsh*t. Do not play their game.

IGNORE them, after half a dozen pathetic attempts to scare you they WILL go away.

And, no, they cannot clamp your vehicle because they claim you owe them money. That is illegal. I have never heard of it happening, but, if it does, you can give them 15 minutes to remove it, after which, get an angle grinder and remove it yourself as it would be an illegal trespass.

Then sue them and whoever was daft enough to employ them- i.e. the car park owner.

And in case it hasn't been made clear, even had you done what they said, still they would have no right to "fine" you. No private company or individual can fine a citizen. It is illegal.

moonklash

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the advice. Unfortunately I did respond and now it looks like things have spiralled out of control. I really should have listened but got involved :-(

[FONT=&quot]From:[FONT=&quot] Matt Croft [mailto:matt@capital2coast.co.uk]
Sent: 22 March 2012 11:29
To: Stuart Clark; info@britishparking.co.uk
Cc: gwq-info@landsecurities.com; info@capital2coast.co.uk
Subject: Re: Complaint - Capital 2 Coast Security (Gunwharf Quays, Portsmouth)[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Dear Mr Clark [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]May I reply to your complaint.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Your vehicle is only permitted to be at location for a maximum of a 96 hour period with a visitors pass displayed from the first visit on site, you may leave and return to the location within the 96 hours as many times as you require within this period, provided you are a genuine visitor and a permit is correctly displayed, but must not return for 5 days after the 96 hours period elapses.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]All of the conditions of the parking regulations have been supplied to all of the tenants via the Gunwharf Management office, the person to whom that permit belongs to is fully aware of the conditions of parking as they would have been supplied with the parking regulations.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]By you claiming you were not aware of the parking conditions leads me to assume that you have obtained this permit by way of default or are using this permit to park your vehicle during the week days and are not using this permit for genuine purposes of visiting as the owner of this property as I am sure they would have informed you of the conditions of which this permit can be used , If you are not a genuine visitor to a resident of the location you are in fact using the visitors parking area for other purposes therefore you are also breach the conditions of parking. [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You stated in an email " That your friend allows you to use their visitors permit to park in the residential area at Gunwharf Quays, throughout the week, you usually arrive around 9am and depart at 5pm, this indicates you are using the location to park your vehicle whilst you are at work, this is abuse of the conditions of parking and is an offence in its self, I have copied the BPA into this email and also the management office at Gunwharf Quays, I would suggest you pay the parking ticket within the time specified and immediately stop abusing your friends visitors pass before the management take action to revoke the pass. [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Factually you have abused the condition of parking and are required to pay the parking ticket, failure to do so will result in you being pursued through our debt recovery agent and possible court action taken to recover our debt and any additional costs.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have informed the management at Gunwharf Quays and will advise you of what action is to be taken in relation to the validity of your parking permit and if it is to be revoked, this will stop you from receiving further parking tickets should the permit be cancelled.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Kindest regards [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat Croft [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Operations Director [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

My reply:

[FONT=&quot]From:[FONT=&quot] Stuart Clark [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sent:[FONT=&quot] Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:26 PM[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To:[FONT=&quot] [EMAIL="matt&#64;capital2coast.co.uk"]'Matt Croft'[/EMAIL] ; [EMAIL="info&#64;britishparking.co.uk"]info@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cc:[FONT=&quot] [EMAIL="gwq-info&#64;landsecurities.com"]gwq-info@landsecurities.com[/EMAIL] ; [EMAIL="info&#64;capital2coast.co.uk"]info@capital2coast.co.uk[/EMAIL] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Subject:[FONT=&quot] RE: Complaint - Capital 2 Coast Security (Gunwharf Quays, Portsmouth)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
Hello Matt,
Thank you for confirming the terms and conditions.
I also have contacted Gunwharf, The News, Martin Lewis and made a complaint about your practises to the BPA who are now investigating you for breach of their code of conduct. If found in breach of their code, this will result in points being applied against you; when your receive too many points this will ultimately result in you being removed from the BPA.
I’ve also started warning people about your practises and reported the incident. I will remove my complaint and not take this any further when the parking ticket has been cancelled. Failure to cancel the parking ticket will achieve you nothing as your case is based on lies and supposition; I repeat – I have not parked in the car park for the 96 hours you state, therefore any ‘proof’ you have against me is not genuine and is not enough to continue your bullying campaign against me. I have also not abused anything or anyone and I resent your implications that I have.
The signs within the car park clearly make no reference to terms and conditions and neither does the permit – for your operation to be legal, any terms and conditions must be clearly visible or referred to within the car park (or a link to these provided). For you to state I’m “probably using the permit for work” is supposition; you have no proof of this and you cannot impose fines or further action without proof. I am not in breach of any terms and conditions. Additionally I have not parked in the car park for the 96 hours you claim, and have evidence to prove. You completely ignored this in your PDF letter to me and blatantly disregarded my comments and the facts of the matter.
You will pleased to hear I will not be using the car park anymore and will make other arrangements for parking when visiting my friend. This is not because I am in the wrong – I am fully justified in parking there with a valid permit, but because I dislike the bullying, illegal and dishonest tactics you have decided to start imposing against innocent people. To be honest I doubt my friend or many other people will be willing to stay in Gunwharf much longer – after the fiasco of Shoal Enforcement, for Gunwharf to now start employing a company that imposes fines without any regard for the law is enough to destroy any enjoyment in an otherwise superb place to live.
It’s a nice sunny day and I’d very much like to put this behind me and get on with my life without further harassment from you – I’m sure you feel the same. If you’re willing to cancel the parking ticket I will be happy to think no more of the matter, withdraw my case from the BPA, not take this incident further with The News and inform the people I’ve contacted that this has been resolved satisfactorily.
I await your response.
Regards,
Stuart Clark.


And them:

[FONT=&quot]From:[FONT=&quot] Matt Croft [mailto:matt@capital2coast.co.uk]
Sent: 22 March 2012 12:50
To: Stuart Clark
Subject: Re: Complaint - Capital 2 Coast Security (Gunwharf Quays, Portsmouth)[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The ticket will NOT be cancelled.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Capital 2 Coast Security will not enter into any further debate on this appeal.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Failure to pay the ticket will result in the debt being passed to our specialist agent with costs incurred without further notice from Capital 2 Coast Security.[FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards [FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Me again:
[FONT=&quot]From:[FONT=&quot] Stuart Clark
Sent: 22 March 2012 13:07
To: 'Matt Croft'
Cc: 'info@britishparking.co.uk'; 'gwq-info@landsecurities.com'
Subject: RE: Complaint - Capital 2 Coast Security (Gunwharf Quays, Portsmouth)[/FONT][/FONT]

Hello Matt,
In your earlier email (copied to the BPA and Gunwharf) you claimed to be referring this to Gunwharf Quays for them to review. You mention only the permit but one would assume this includes the ticket:
>I have informed the management at Gunwharf Quays and will advise you of what action is to be taken in relation to the validity of your parking permit and if it is to be revoked, this will > stop you from receiving further parking tickets should the permit be cancelled.

Your latest email (below), which you appear not to have copied to the BPA or Gunwharf, contradicts this and states the ticket won’t be reviewed. Something to hide? Is that why you removed the other recipients? So is this case being reviewed by Gunwharf or not? That’s what you said previously. Aren’t we backtracking a little? Are you now stating the information in your earlier email is incorrect?

> Capital 2 Coast Security will not enter into any further debate on this appeal.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
This isn’t an appeal – your ticket isn’t valid because I’m not in breach of any terms and conditions and did not park for the 96 hour period you specified. For this to be an appeal, I would need to be in contravention of the terms and conditions of parking, which I am not. Therefore there is nothing for me to pay. I do not acknowledge any validity in your parking ticket and reject your illegal attempt to extort money.

You’ll be pleased to hear your inability to handle this matter and the attempts by your company to extort money is now being discussed on social networking websites including Twitter. Other people are appearing quite interested in your activities.

Regards,

Stuart Clark.

moonklash

I've contacted Gunwharf Quays on Twitter as well now - usually they care a little bit more about their reputation so hopefully they'll try and help resolve the matter.

I'm a bit concerned about Capital 2 Coast claiming they'll try to pursue costs - bit worried about what that means!

Stephen_Leak

It just means that, like any blackmailer, the next demand will be for more money.

The car park owner's reply will be interesting. Don't forget that you can also sue them for their agent's harassment on their behalf.

give_them_FA

It means- Nothing whatever. If you proceed upon the basis that parking companies base their whole strategy on lies and BS, then you will have a clear understanding of what you are dealing with.

And as you are sure of your ground send them a letter before action to sue them for harassment. Unlike their BS claim, yours is fully legal. Need help? PM me.