Dublin M50 Toll Penalty Enforceable?

TinkerbelleW

Thank you for your response. I had always thought that tolls in the EU would be the same as ours, and disabled class vehicles are exempt.

I don't want to ignore it if the situation will just get worse, and if I am due to pay the toll, I will.

However, I am perturbed that the eflow website says that vehicles adapted for disabled are exempt. If that is the case, but disabled class vehicles that haven't been adapted aren't, that seems wrong.

Iceweasel

Tinkerbelle - the Blue Badge (which I presume you have) is recognised throughout the EU and beyond.

The BB gives you the same concessions as locals in whichever country you are in, but they vary greatly from country to country.

Some are minimal.

I know this from extensive foreign trips with my elderly father and his BB displayed on my car.

If you wanted to query the Eire position you could contact these good folks:

http://www.ddai.ie/

Goodluck and don't lose sleep over it.

StaffsSW

I've spoken with E-Flow and EPC directly about this to try to create a workable solution, but they just go into broken record mode.

When a UK vehicle is identified, they pass the debt to EPC plc for collection. EPC will send two letters, with the penalty amount increasing each time. They will then send a "letter before debt collection" notice, and then Rossendales send a letter, again increasing the charge to try to skim their piece of revenue.
It will then get passed back to EPC plc, who start the process again.

E-flow have confirmed they can not take legal action in the UK as it is out of their jurisdiction, EPC claim they can take all sorts of action under various EU law, but ultimately they are only a debt collector.

I've asked them to put their money where their lawyer is, but still the letters continue...

HappyMJ

StaffsSW wrote: »

I've spoken with E-Flow and EPC directly about this to try to create a workable solution, but they just go into broken record mode.

When a UK vehicle is identified, they pass the debt to EPC plc for collection. EPC will send two letters, with the penalty amount increasing each time. They will then send a "letter before debt collection" notice, and then Rossendales send a letter, again increasing the charge to try to skim their piece of revenue.
It will then get passed back to EPC plc, who start the process again.

E-flow have confirmed they can not take legal action in the UK as it is out of their jurisdiction, EPC claim they can take all sorts of action under various EU law, but ultimately they are only a debt collector.

I've asked them to put their money where their lawyer is, but still the letters continue...

Oh well. Letters..that's just too bad. Keep 'em coming. I wouldn't worry about it.

TinkerbelleW

Thanks again Iceweasel: it's not the blue badge that provides for concessions about tolls (although, yes, I do have one). For exemption of toll charges, you must be exempt from vehicle excise duty and the car registered as a disabled class vehicle, not plg.

When I last drove through the Dartford Crossing, I didn't realise that the charge is now made retrospectively, with non payers being traced through number plate recognition. I phoned them in a panic 2 days after I used the crossing and after checking, they explained to me that when they their computer cross checks with DVLA records, which confirms my vehicle is registered as a disabled class vehicle, and they then know I'm exempt.

Surely, the same info would have been provided to Euro Parking Collection?

Iceweasel

TinkerbelleW wrote: »

Thanks again Iceweasel: it's not the blue badge that provides for concessions about tolls (although, yes, I do have one). For exemption of toll charges, you must be exempt from vehicle excise duty and the car registered as a disabled class vehicle, not plg.

When I last drove through the Dartford Crossing, I didn't realise that the charge is now made retrospectively, with non payers being traced through number plate recognition. I phoned them in a panic 2 days after I used the crossing and after checking, they explained to me that when they their computer cross checks with DVLA records, which confirms my vehicle is registered as a disabled class vehicle, and they then know I'm exempt.

Surely, the same info would have been provided to Euro Parking Collection?

That's what I meant about foreign use - the requirements you are talking about, which I highlighted in red, are for the UK only.

Outside the UK disabled class and exempt from VED means nothing.

And as far as fairness is concerned I also think it's unfair that a normal (VED paid) car carrying a disabled passenger should pay any tolls.

In fact I'd take it a stage further and say that no-one should pay any tolls at all - anywhere in the UK - and have told my Westminster MP that.

We have no toll bridges or tunnels any more anywhere in Scotland and free parking for everyone at hospitals - apart from a couple of anomalies which are being phased out.

Euro Parking Collection would not be contacting the UK DVLA for details of the vehicles status - only the keeper's name and address.

TinkerbelleW

i've dreamt of a utopia on many occasion. ;-)

ausraider

E-flow have confirmed they can not take legal action in the UK as it is out of their jurisdiction, EPC claim they can take all sorts of action under various EU law

Hi,
I also have been pursued by EPC for the Dublin M-50, recently receiving a demand for over 70 GBP for one trip through the e-flow system.
I was delighted to find all the helpful information from this site and am now confident that I will contact them with an offer for the Standard Toll Charge of €3.10 but certainly not £70+ for EPC's finders fee.

Here's another link to consider for anyone being persued by EPC:

/etsc.eu/faq-eu-cross-border-enforcement-directive/

If you read section 2 of this FAQ: you'll see that Ireland hasn't even submitted proposals for cross border enforcement by the European Court of Justice to ratify: never mind the fact that in general the revision of the Cross Border Enforcement proposals whose deadline was May 2015 seems a bit 'iffy' according to this Faq, even for serious traffic offenses.

However if you examine section 4 of the FAQ; you can see that pursuing Toll charges across the border
doesn't even appear to be a consideration in the text of the, only recently proposed, new EU cross border enforcement directive, nevermind EPC's self-appointed UTN fee.

Therefore, although I'm not a practicing lawyer, it would appear to me that EPC don't have any legal right to persue even the Toll charges related to the Dublin M50 from residents in the UK.
However, as I am currently resident in the UK, I am now wondering if I have recourse to legal action against UK-based EPC for fraud and even harrasment, as I did not enter into contract with them stipulating that I agreed to pay EPC's own UTN fees, even if I was indebted to their client, e-flow, for the STC.

Also, what does it say about the morals of the individuals in the DVLA, a department of the civil service, when they will hand out UK subjects private information to a commercial company like EPC and their gob smackingly extortionate UTNs? Whats to stop a commercial company like EPC giving out, nay, selling drivers details to Euro-Insurance or Euro-Timeshare in Turkey for example?
I can't help but wonder what individual or individuals within the DVLA secured the contract for EPC,
and also what said individuals may have received by way of a 'gift'.
:mad:
Ausraider.

Sarahlouiself

Hi I have also received a fine for £70. Did anyone have any luck at just paying the toll and not the fine? I contacted flow by phone today and they told me i had to speak to EPC which I don't really want to do as I know as debt collectors they will say anything to get their money!
I just want to pay the toll and be done with it, really want to know who everyone else's experiences turned out?

Thanks!
Sarah

Parisien

Just got one of these for a single journey last month, anyone being pursued to pay or indeed any further action taken from a legal perspective?

P