PPI Reclaiming Discussion Part 5

Borgie

Deleted_User wrote: »

Because data is removed over time.

SO unless I can prove what I paid I am stuffed - would they not know based on the amount of the loan ?

[Deleted User]

No, because that would depend on your rate of repayment and whether you cancelled the PPI at any stage.

sio2017

dunstonh wrote: »

If they say they produced it, then the onus is on you to show they did not. So, what evidence do you have to show they did not do this?

Focusing on the wishy washy areas that rarely result in success is not a good use of your time. Focus on the areas where success is likely. Although, as they have already rejected your complaint, the FOS is the next step to carry those points through.

The pages on here say the opposite to what you are saying. I have said several times I have been following what it says on here and went through Resolver on here so I am really baffled why yourself and the other user keep saying it's wrong. Yes I know some of the templates are for the beginning of the process, I didn't actually say anything about using them or what I was going to do, I simply wanted directing to where they were. I am aware they are for the offset and its obvious the first template of the ombudsman form to send to the company is the first one you send, or fill in the Resolver form, and it states that in the information pages right next to it. But you just assumed I wanted to send those templates now. What I actually wanted was to look at those pages to find the links to the stories I read of people in similar place to me and what kind of evidence they used when it was sold on a call, and for the links to other templates for then referring it on to the ombudsman. I did say at some point there was other info I was looking for not just those templates, but due to the responses still not picking up on that, I shortened to just asking for links to the templates (so I could then find the other things I wanted from those pages), I don't think I really needed to explain in detail why I wanted to get to those pages as its not relevant to anything other than what I want to look at for my own reasons. you comment that it's me who has to prove it not the bank....I would understand that in normal type of cases where someone takes someone else to court over something, but this website and several others state that in these ppi complaints, if you feel that something in their checklists happened to you, you do not have to be able to prove it as the bank sold it and they have to show they followed the rules. I am not going to go looking to link that page but it is on the page I mentioned yesterday. If you feel that things I've said are wrong then it may be worth highlighting it to the officials who created the information on those pages and taking it up with them, as well as other websites that state it as it's them that put it there not me. But before you say it, yes I know they sent me a rejection letter. Again I am not looking for comments or advice on that and you don't know what was said when I called them to ask for the evidence. I have said in another post that they gave me an address to write in to raise some of the things I discussed with them. So in summary, I didn't actually say I wanted to send the first template at this stage, I just wanted directing to the page they are all on as there is useful information on there and links to other pages with useful information and other peoples stories. Nothing else. I have since found the pages and information as stated yesterday so this doesn't need to be discussed

Borgie

Deleted_User wrote: »

No, because that would depend on your rate of repayment and whether you cancelled the PPI at any stage.

SO I am stuffed

dunstonh

The pages on here say the opposite to what you are saying. I have said several times I have been following what it says on here and went through Resolver on here so I am really baffled why yourself and the other user keep saying it's wrong.

The MSE site is pro-complaint and doesnt give things like odds of success etc. However, I am a regulated individual and follow FOS decisions and go to FOS meetings. I know the trends. As do other regular posters here.

You seem to be mixing up reasons why you may have been mis-sold with provable reasons that may not have evidence to support your allegation they were missold.

you comment that it's me who has to prove it not the bank....I would understand that in normal type of cases where someone takes someone else to court over something, but this website and several others state that in these ppi complaints, if you feel that something in their checklists happened to you, you do not have to be able to prove it as the bank sold it and they have to show they followed the rules

That is not a correct interpretation. There has to be evidence or sufficient information that suggests a wrongdoing took place. They are not required to show they did it correctly. Often they cannot as the evidence available no longer exists. Especially on pre-regulation complaints. So, decisions are made on the available evidence and supportable information as well as an element of credibility.

So, the bank records may not have anything that shows it was done correctly but also nothing that shows it was done incorrectly. So, they are able to reject that complaint as nothing points to any wrongdoing.

For example, look at this FOS decsion: http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.uk/viewPDF.aspx?FileID=40292
There are references to things not being as clear as they should have been and that it was non-advised so suitability didnt need to be checked. So, even where there are failures, it can still be rejected.

so this doesn't need to be discussed

This is a discussion board. Everything is up for discussion. That is the point of it.

-taff

There is a lot of simplifying going on in the guides, and ome are out of date and wrong.
The bank has rejected your complaint.
Your next step is the FOS.
You could send a SAR and £10 to see what info they have left, don't confuse this with a CCA request and £1 because you won't get that.
This partiular part of the site is not a support group, it's for information, so yoou're not going to get 'yay, go yo' type of posts here.

sio2017

dunstonh wrote: »

The MSE site is pro-complaint and doesnt give things like odds of success etc. However, I am a regulated individual and follow FOS decisions and go to FOS meetings. I know the trends. As do other regular posters here.

You seem to be mixing up reasons why you may have been mis-sold with provable reasons that may not have evidence to support your allegation they were missold.

That is not a correct interpretation. There has to be evidence or sufficient information that suggests a wrongdoing took place. They are not required to show they did it correctly. Often they cannot as the evidence available no longer exists. Especially on pre-regulation complaints. So, decisions are made on the available evidence and supportable information as well as an element of credibility.

So, the bank records may not have anything that shows it was done correctly but also nothing that shows it was done incorrectly. So, they are able to reject that complaint as nothing points to any wrongdoing.

For example, look at this FOS decsion:
There are references to things not being as clear as they should have been and that it was non-advised so suitability didnt need to be checked. So, even where there are failures, it can still be rejected.



This is a discussion board. Everything is up for discussion. That is the point of it.

Thanks again for the reply. You like to just pick out parts of what has been said and ignore the rest. If you are a regulated individual shouldn't you know you need to know the full details before advising or commenting. Referring to just one case you know about doesn't mean it applies to everybody elses case. Again I did not state all the reasons for mis-selling that I put in to my complaint. It would have been nice to actually point me towards something that would help to gather evidence in telephone cases, or give some information about the kind of things that need to be looked at, and actually help, rather than just say that's it you cant do nothing go to the ombudsman. You should know that getting as much evidence and info as possible to try to help is a good thing. You state yourself it is difficult to prove in phone cases but offer no support or information as to what points I can push on more etc. Just sending it straight to ombudsman doesn't really help unless I can give them some sort of further information or evidence. That was my point in coming here to try to find pages that offer that kind of information. But all I've received is brick walls and negativity and trying to prove you wring type comments from people who supposedly know about these things, instead of them maybe asking questions to see what I put in to it, or to advise what else I may be able to add etc. Anyways this has taken up far too much time and still ignoring that I said I didn't want any further help or discussion on it. Yes its a discussion board, that's obvious and I actually created this particular discussion that you keep commenting on...note its only you doing it now. But I found what I was looking for several posts. If you want to discuss my case where you don't even know half of what had been said or what evidence I have or haven't used, instead of provide help or support or direction then go ahead, but don't link me in to anymore comments just discuss it with yourself please.
What you said above is the most helpful thing you have posted since you began yesterday, and that's the kind of pointers I was looking for along with the pages, I don't know why you didn't start with that kind of information and progress from there rather than just ignore what I was actually trying to do. If I could remove all my comments and subsequent replies to end this then I would. I had to remove your link to post my comment as a new user. Again please do not link me in further discussion unless it is specifically providing help or support in the things that I was doing, as you know evidence needs to be given to ombudsman so I have to try and get some before I can do that.

sio2017

-taff wrote: »

There is a lot of simplifying going on in the guides, and ome are out of date and wrong.
The bank has rejected your complaint.
Your next step is the FOS.
You could send a SAR and £10 to see what info they have left, don't confuse this with a CCA request and £1 because you won't get that.
This partiular part of the site is not a support group, it's for information, so yoou're not going to get 'yay, go yo' type of posts here.

Thanks for your reply. Yes I am planning on sending SAR to see what info they have left. When I requested to see their evidence as they stated I could in their reply, what I received doesn't appear to be evidence and is just a photocopy of a leaflet and a photocopy of the CCA but it is missing most of the terms and conditions. Nothing mentions any ppi and in my opinion those two things are not evidence to reject a claim as everything they say is just saying 'the adviser would have done...' ' we would have done' and just saying that's what their policy to do was, even though I know they didn't do a lot of it on the call or send anything afterwards. They have the date I called and what it was about but do not have the call recording, which is what would have been my evidence as that's where it happened. Well that and then them not sending me any information after the call and not sending me this photocopy of a leaflet until now.
I called them to ask for the evidence again as the two things they sent do not show anything, and they advised me to write to the complaints team as they can provide better info than the team I spoke to on the phone apparently (which was supposed to be ppi complaints team). So at the moment I am figuring out if I should write to that team to request it like they said on the phone (no mention of paying for the evidence they used) and then do a separate SAR to see whatever else they have, or if I do not write in to that team and just do a SAR. They are willing to correspond still as per call and in their letter they invite me to send in further info that they may not have seen at the time. They will also review it when the new rules begin on 29th August. So it seems at the moment its better to correspond with them whilst doing a SAR as some of the info I get in the SAR I may be able to use? I didn't send anything with my complaint other than stating the parts I believe I was mis-sold and what happened on the phone call, as I thought that they would come back to me on resolver to discuss things or ask for more details. I've seen they have done that when people have written to them and letters go back and forth before any decisions made, so I thought they would do that on resolver. Stupidly. I know I should have really done this before submitting it on resolver, but I literally thought there would be more correspondence or questions etc before a decision. It's really hard doing this, knowing what to say and how to word it if your not a financially minded person and just a consumer. I know that they didn't give me info on a lot of things they should have, but knowing how to word or phrase it for it to make effect and how to show it is a different story! That's why I was keen to be pointed to pages where other people have done telephone cases, or what thins I need to use to make a good case as I now have to gather that before the ombudsman as what I said on resolver will not be enough. Thanks for the info

dunstonh

Referring to just one case you know about doesn't mean it applies to everybody elses case.

I could have used any number from thousands.

If you are a regulated individual shouldn't you know you need to know the full details before advising or commenting.

This is a discussion board. Not an advice board.

and actually help, rather than just say that's it you cant do nothing go to the ombudsman. Y

You should be going to the ombudsman.

You should know that getting as much evidence and info as possible to try to help is a good thing

Yes. However, telephone scripts change over time and the FOS will have a copy of the telephone scripts that were in place with the provider at that time. So, you searching for scripts etc that may or may not apply to you is pointless. The FOS have them.

Again please do not link me in further discussion unless it is specifically providing help or support in the things that I was doing, as you know evidence needs to be given to ombudsman so I have to try and get some before I can do that.

It is not your place to say what others can and cannot do. This information is now in the public domain and read by many more people than just you. Responses are not just for your benefit but other people as well.

Nicepeach

Hi, sorry if this is in the wrong place not posted on any financial forums before, in fact this is the first time I've logged in for quite a few years but still been visiting and viewing.

I've received a response to claim I'm trying to make for mis-sold PPI against the first mortgage I took out, with the Halifax, in 1998. Initially just a letter acknowledging that they will look into the claim, then a phone call asking if I had any documentation or an account reference (I don't & included this in the original letter) but today I have received a letter stating that until I provide them with either 1. Any documentation relating to the Policy or 2. Any proof of payments within 14 days of the date of the letter they will be unable to progress my complaint and will close the file.

I was quite explicit when I wrote the original letter, using "Resolver" from this site, that I had no documentary evidence relating to the original Policy at all and confirmed this during the course of the phone call.

So in view of confirmation, twice, that I don't have any of this information is it worth contacting them again or am I wasting my time? Or is this just a stalling tactic? I have tried to phone them but they close at 5pm.

They have obviously found the account as there is an account reference number on the letter.

Just wondered if anyone else had experienced this as it would be useful to know before I ring/write to them.

Sorry it's so long - just tried to include as much info. as possible.

Thanks.