Breeders don't care about dogs, but only about 'winning'

scotty1971

Errata wrote: »

Puppy farms.

every second pup i seen came from wales

Person_one

Have a look here:

http://cariadcampaign.wordpress.com/

faded_flowers

Frugalista wrote: »

But isn't it down to personal choice?

If I (and thousands of others) prefer a pedigree dog to a crossbreed, who are you to say otherwise? I will always support responsible, reputable breeders - IT IS MY CHOICE and is not for you or anyone else to decide for me.

The original poster didn't say 'responsible, reputable breeders' - they were talking about the Kennel Club. You choose to support a corrupt organisation who consistently put looks before health. They could do so much good with their power and they choose not to. Yes, that is your choice - but don't expect applause for it.

Frugalista

faded_flowers wrote: »

The original poster didn't say 'responsible, reputable breeders' - they were talking about the Kennel Club And pedigree dog breeders if you read the OP correctly. You choose to support a corrupt organisation who consistently put looks before health. They could do so much good with their power and they choose not to. Yes, that is your choice - but don't expect applause for it.

What are you on about - applause??? :huh::huh::huh::huh: Have you anything constructive to add or have you just posted this to jump on the Bullying Bandwagon that seems to thrive on this board.

I posted on here to say that personally I prefer to spend my hard earned money on my much loved pedigree pets. I have commited no crime - I merely have a different (but equally as valid) viewpoint to many on here - and yet I have been insulted and told I am "an open target", "despicable" and likened to a religious fanatic :(. And all because I dared to say I love my animals - nothing more .

I find it so sad that people have to resort to insults, spitefulness and bullying and appear incapable of polite discussion just because they cannot conceive of a different viewpoint.

By the way, to those posters who PM'd me with supportive posts - it's such a shame that so many of you feel unable to post on here for fear of these vicious, bullying fanatics - Thanks anyway .

Wine_of_the_World

I watched the show with great sadness. Before this – and the previous program revealed the systematic failures of the kennel club I really believed the best place to buy a puppy was from a reputable registered breeder. I know the horrors of puppy farms, and certainly will never buy a puppy from such a place.
I also believed so called ‘back yard’ breeders were a bad thing too as they didn’t understand the complexities of breeding. I turned my nose up at people who bred a litter or two from their much loved, own dogs. But now I am starting to wonder whether ordinary who actually breed a litter or two in this way are actually the better option. By only breeding a litter or two from the same !!!!! / dog, they will perhaps help to halt the deceasing gene pool, and help prevent unhealthy genes becoming established within the breed. This as opposed to registered breeders dogs who may have far more litters. I don’t know though.
There must be lots of people like me – thinking of buying a pedigree dog – but unsure of the best way – for the breed as a whole as well as myself – to go about it. I don’t want to support the breed societies who support bad breeders, nor the kennel club who shield them. I want to do the best for the breed – but at the moment I am not sure what this is.

cepheus

There seems to be some confusion between the merits of different breeding strategies. We all 'officially' agree that strategy 1) is bad, but Kennel Club snobs focus on the distinction between 2) verses 3) which distract attention that we should be encouraging strategy 4) which is in the best interests of the dogs.

1) Pedigree breeders who care little about hereditary disorders, focusing on the purity of the breed instead, we saw one woman in the programme like this

2) Pedigree breeders who take care that hereditary disorders are not prevalent because pedigree breeding will tend to spread these disorders unless checked. However, this strategy becomes progressively more difficult and expensive without cross breeding, and is open to the abuses of 1). They still do little for the inherent unhealthy characteristics of the breed they are producing (breathing, folds in skin etc)

3) Puppy farms and amateur breeders who take little care of avoiding hereditary disorders or the purity of the dog breed providing they can achieve a good price and a profit.

4) Professional breeders who focus on avoiding hereditary disorders and general health, rather than the purity of the dog. In addition to the checks which pedigree breeders use, they may be prepared to introduce a non-pure breed in a line to restrict the effects of an unhealthy gene. This makes everybody's job much easier, and restricts the likelihood of health problems when less vigilant breeders intervene further down the line.

lostinrates

Wine_of_the_World wrote: »

I watched the show with great sadness. Before this – and the previous program revealed the systematic failures of the kennel club I really believed the best place to buy a puppy was from a reputable registered breeder. I know the horrors of puppy farms, and certainly will never buy a puppy from such a place.
I also believed so called ‘back yard’ breeders were a bad thing too as they didn’t understand the complexities of breeding. I turned my nose up at people who bred a litter or two from their much loved, own dogs. But now I am starting to wonder whether ordinary who actually breed a litter or two in this way are actually the better option. By only breeding a litter or two from the same !!!!! / dog, they will perhaps help to halt the deceasing gene pool, and help prevent unhealthy genes becoming established within the breed. This as opposed to registered breeders dogs who may have far more litters. I don’t know though.
There must be lots of people like me – thinking of buying a pedigree dog – but unsure of the best way – for the breed as a whole as well as myself – to go about it. I don’t want to support the breed societies who support bad breeders, nor the kennel club who shield them. I want to do the best for the breed – but at the moment I am not sure what this is.

I don't disagree with this, and in fact, its how my mother started. We had a very good pet girl who the breeder said she would like a litter from. My patents were not willing unless they had some power of veto over buyers and my mother with the judge set about learning as much as she could. No girl of my mothers had mre than two litters, most had one.

In cidentally, all the pups from breeders we knoware sold with the option to register puppies not available, but this is changable and most breeders will consider it if the dog matures into a good specimin, and either have the dog back for a litter or hold the pe owners hand through it.

Imo, its a very good way to do things but most pet owners do not have the experience of choosing good matches, nor the time and interest to research this ( just using very successful show dogs to sire doesn't add much breadth to the line ). Working with your breeder to have one good litter that they help you sell through their waiting lists of buyers and help you breed well...which if they like your dog they will often do for pick of the litter. Its a compromise.....breadthening the genepool, using rhe knowlegde and experience of good breeders to both help with the practicalities and the choices. Just taking your noce dog to another pet owners nice dog with neither really knowing much about lines or having an established 'market' to sell to or the experience of vetting owners is probably not always very successful though.

When the question comes up on here when i am about i always suggest people return and ask their breeders. Most good breeders really do want th ebest for their breeds.

dizziblonde

Wow - so a dog's worth is based on how far back you can trace their lineage!?

One of my dogs I can trace back to the 1820s on one side, and 1840ish on the other (not as a formal "pedigree" but because the background of racing greyhounds is fairly well documented with sites like greyhound data)... the other - god-knows what's in his background but it was probably furry and slobbery. Is one worth more to me because of her lineage? God no - they're both utterly priceless to me - the lineage comes into play only ever as a spot of mild interest because it's interesting to see when you meet another greyhound if she's related to them - she usually is somewhere or other.

Last thing I'd ever do is sit there and play the "my dog's family tree is taller than your dog's family tree" rubbish - and I'd never rank one dog higher than the other because one's a recognised "breed" - both of mine are fabulous. God there are some snooty people out there who sneer at good old fashioned mutts - and the comments against mongrels were snidey stealth bragging at its worst.

Particularly loving the "I'm going to ignore your opinion as it dares to be different from mine" claptrap as well.

Person_one

Frugalista wrote: »

What are you on about - applause??? :huh::huh::huh::huh: Have you anything constructive to add or have you just posted this to jump on the Bullying Bandwagon that seems to thrive on this board.

I posted on here to say that personally I prefer to spend my hard earned money on my much loved pedigree pets. I have commited no crime - I merely have a different (but equally as valid) viewpoint to many on here - and yet I have been insulted and told I am "an open target", "despicable" and likened to a religious fanatic :(. And all because I dared to say I love my animals - nothing more .

I find it so sad that people have to resort to insults, spitefulness and bullying and appear incapable of polite discussion just because they cannot conceive of a different viewpoint.

By the way, to those posters who PM'd me with supportive posts - it's such a shame that so many of you feel unable to post on here for fear of these vicious, bullying fanatics - Thanks anyway .

Its actually pretty darned offensive that you are accusing people of bullying you. Do you have any idea what real bullying is and what it does to its victims? This is a discussion board, having people disagree with you, even strongly, is NOT bullying. Your opinion is not sacred.

I actually agree that its pretty despicable that you think your right to know your pet's family tree is more important than that pet's (and all the future pets of that breed's) right to a life as free from pain and suffering as possible.

Frugalista

Person_one wrote: »

Its actually pretty darned offensive that you are accusing people of bullying you. Do you have any idea what real bullying is and what it does to its victims? Not that it's any of your business, but actually yes I do - to the point of a total breakdown and many years on anti-depressants. That was a number of years ago and I am no longer afraid to confront bullies in any shape or form - including the bullies on this forum :cool:.

This is a discussion board Indeed it is, having people disagree with you, even strongly, is NOT bullying. Depends on whether you are the one being picked on, or not, really.

Your opinion is not sacred. Nowhere have I implied that - I have merely expressed a differing opinion and have been attacked and insulted in return. I don't understand why you feel so threatened just because I said I love my pedigree animals .

I actually agree that its pretty despicable that you think your right to know your pet's family tree is more important than that pet's (and all the future pets of that breed's) right to a life as free from pain and suffering as possible. Where exactly have I said that? I think you are reading things that aren't there. I said that one of my hobbies is researching pedigrees and the dogs in them (that includes their health too). Nowhere in any of my posts ever on this site have I ever said anything remotely resembling that.

Please go back, read and inwardly digest my posts properly. If you then wish to have a civilised discussion with no name calling and wild accusations - then I'll consider it :cool: .