CSA Please can anyone advise

clearingout

fannyanna wrote: »

I find the current system to be completely unfair on many angles. I think it's unfair purely from a PWC angle.

• PWC 1 on benefits and receiving £5 per week in maintenance.
• PWC 2 on benefits and receiving £100 per week in maintenance.

How is that fair to PWC 1 and many other PWC's who are in a similar position or do not receive any child maintenance at all.

that's just life, though, isn't it? how is it fair that a working PWC on minimum wage gets nothing 'cos her ex has been made redundant on JSA and a PWC on benefits gets £100 a week in maintenance? I guess the real point is that it's not about the PWC, it's about the children. And the children should get a fair contribution according to whatever it is their NRP does. We could argue that the contribution made (assuming everyone was on the same CSA calculation) that is directly proportional to their NRP's contribution to the household when parents were together. Or even if parents were never together, proportional to what NRP1 earns compared with what NRP2 earns.

The children who genuinely miss out are those who have high earning self employed NRPs who choose not to contribute and whom the system supports to do this because of the way directors of limited companies are able to prepare their accounts. Or those who have NRPs who are paid cash in hand. Or those who have NRPs who become unexpectedly disabled as a result of illness or accident and don't have any insurance in place to continue paying maintenance (or even their own living costs). Or those who's NRPs have died without putting in place anything to cover the cost of maintenance in the long term.

I personally don't get annoyed that some PWC get something and I get nothing at all despite having a very able-bodied, seemingly successful, self-employed ex. I get annoyed that my children aren't having the life they could have if he were prepared to work with me rather than against me. I had children with this man - I have to take some level of responsibility for his on-going !!!!lessness. And I do that by getting on with life and trying to make the pieces of the life he shattered and continues to try and mess with all fit together. Drives him insane - that's my revenge:D

vicster994

I do not have time to read and respond to all posts. I am not home most of the week sitting on these forums waiting to pounce on fathers asking questions or current wifes/partners/girlfriends

Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time. Its a shame that all of these women responding seem yes Kevin so bitter. shame none of them responded on the comments I made about fathers not having a choice on how their children are being brought up. But they are quite happy to take the money....

In my opinion its all about whether you assign the role of being a victim in life following circumtances. If my husband left me for another woman I would not fill my sons heads full of hate about the father.

My step daughter's mother has a friend with benefits (so it does not affect her benefits). He comes he stays the nite and leaves, my step is 13 on the pill having sex with a 17 year. Get my dift....shame her did not except that her husband left get on with it and try to set the best example a mother could possibly set.

I would like a 3 bed house so my 18 month did not wake my 4 year old up every nite as they share a bedroom. But now we pay £240 we cannot afforrd it. The other reason I dont want to pay as we have to save for a depoist and are not entitled to social housing. When her child leaves at 16 she has a 2 bed house for life, only underoccupying by 1 bedroom.

So when we retire will we able to afford a private room 2 bed house on a penison probally not. Therefore we have to try to buy. The mother clearly has no ambition at all and yes Kevin what is wrong with bettering your life. When I entered their house I had to move a full ashtray off the sofa in order to sit down. And I am afriad that sums it up for me....I piity my step daughter life. Her friends dont come round as they bully her because the state of her house. mother said to me cannot be bothered with cleaning. shameful you would rather that then let your daughter have some sort of self pride.

As I said its all about whether you allow yourself to labeled a victim following circumstances. I was violently raped by a stranger in london 6 years ago. Internal injuires bite marks everywhere including my breasts. spent my birthday in a unit being injected photgraphed and examied, and I was back at work within 4 days because I had to. I did not get sick pay as i was a contractor, no one to pay my rent had to get on with. Luckily as I drugged I do not have a memory of the incident. And guess what I am not a victim, every day I count myself lucky i am still alive not scared and without disease. I am starting to do phone councelloring to other victims in the evening by phone once all the housework is done and boys are in bed.

Its such a shame that alot of women take on the role of victim as you can bet their children will have the same charater traits. Not a child's faullt a parent leaves. So spare their innocent ears, my daughter believes her father left because he was having an affair, easier to say to a child then your father did not like me or love me. Is a daughter going to have the courage to challenge her father on the subject very doubtful....

All very tragic and I pitty the life my step daughter lives and hope by a mircle she can turn her life around. And I enjoy us paying this woman any money NO....Yes I agree we should support the daughter by means of vouchers.

clearingout

vicster

I am sorry to hear you have had a difficult time. But would respond with the following, regardless:
a) if you don't want to be 'jumped on', you should seriously consider how you phrase your posts. Regardless of how you view all PWC, your husband still has an obligation, in law, to financially support his child. It is apparent, however, that as he is on the CSA1 system, he may well be able to reduce that obligation to very little or nothing at all. I am sure that pleases the pair of you no end. So go and get your bigger house and continue to live as a happy family. You'll all be fine.

b) you make an awful lot of negative comments about a woman who, by the sounds of it, is just doing what she needs to get by. You know little of her life and how it really is. She is perhaps depressed. Regardless of how his ex lives her life, your husband still has an obligation to financially support his child.

c) if your husband wanted a say in his daughter's life, he could have one. Like many NRPs who post here, he could use the court system to support him in doing that. He has chosen not to? (not clear from your posts) I have seen many, many NRPs fight and for most of them, although that fight can be long and hard, they win out in the end. Regardless of the say he may or may not have had in his child's life, he still has an obligation in law to financially support his child.

d) Maybe your husband did have an affair. He is hardly likely to tell you the truth, is he?! My ex husband had an affair. I can only presume he had an affair because he no longer loved me. I personally have no issue with telling my children that fact. That's life. S**t happens. I am not a victim, and refuse to be a victim and get on with my life as best I can. None of that makes it OK for you, or my ex, or his partner, to judge my choices in life since he left me. None of it negates my ex's responsibility, and your husband's responsibility, to financially support his child.

e) I too have better things to do than sit on the internet all day posting. Unfortunately, my children and I have limited options as to what we can do in the evenings and at the weekend because we have very little money. At the moment, they are painting on the dining room table, quite happily, whilst I spend some time with them in the same room surfing the internet. We are talking about what we have done this week. Later, my eldest child will attend a Beavers event and the younger two will help me in perfecting a recipe for a lesson I am supporting a colleague in giving next week with children who have been removed from their mainstream classes as a result of their poor behaviour. They are not very receptive to language learning but we are at least getting something into their heads by other means. I can't go out at weekend as I can't afford a babysitter. I don't drink as I can't afford it. I do have the internet and I enjoy posting here. I don't think it unreasonable I do that regularly as it is part of my 'social life'. Sad, perhaps, to you who has a husband. But I am sure there are plenty of PWC who can empathise with my situation. Regardless, it's not for you to judge my life, is it?

vicster994

easy ride, i was on maternity twice in that 4 years and he was made redundant. seperate dates that is why we did not pay, dont assume we avoided payment it was based on our income. prior husband paid 1/3 of his salary for 6 years. she was on full benefits....

vicster994

yes I am also at home everynite and at weekend husband works mostly out of the country so I am phone councelloring and starting a degree through work. Completed during the evening.

Ex wife, doing what she can. One child out of the house by 7 in the morning back at 5 in the evening. Sorry thats not doing what you can in my opinion.

sorry I will never feel any feelings of sisterhood towards a woman that does what she does to that child. I am full of saddness that my step daughter cannot take her friends into her home for the coniditon. So please dont tell me that this woman now has an excuse for not keeping a clean home when she works 1 day out of the 5 that her child is at school. Get real, daughter told me a story how her cat had brought in a dead bird and it stayed there for so long that maggots came out from under the !!!!!! in the lounge. doing what she can pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeee. She shoulld be ashamed. If your going to work then at least give your daughter something to be proud of.

vicster994

sorry are you for real, she got legal aid and he could not afford court costs as he was working. and they did have very good relationship he saw her every weekend as did I. And no he did not have an affair. I dont know if you have noticed, but we have a 2 bed house with two under 5s. Now where does daughter sleep when she comes. THE SOFA........that is why she does not like coming to stay so since the boys have come on the scene she does not have a bed let alone a bedroom. And husband left because he could not bear her any longer, if he stayed it would have ruined her life and if he left he still had no control. Not healthy for children being brought up in a home full of anger would you have rathered that why of life.

DeeDee74

op if your that concerned about the life of the child why arent u fighting to have the child live with u?? you've done nothing but slag mother and child off, u won't a say in what goes on in the child's life you fight for it, u haven't, u won't cause it's all about the money, i cant see any concern for this child, she's an inconvience cause u have to pay 4 her.
Any worth while decent parent would be fighting to give her a better life when does your huspand see her?

clearingout

vickster,

ah, full story is beginning to merge. Of course things are never as they first seem, although things are always complicated.

I feel a sense of 'sisterhood' as you call it with women who are lone parents but being a lone parent is....well, at the moment it's how my life is. Being a lone parent is the dominant thing in my life, if that makes sense. I also have struggled enormously with life after my ex husband walked out but the detail of that is not particularly relevant. I don't think things are as black and white as you try to make out. I try to see things from all sides.

But none of this changes anything. Your partner has a moral and legal obligation to support his daughter - he hasn't had to do that for the last 4 years so perhaps it's about time he did. Even if mum worked more, even if mum earned more, even if mum was a doctor and not serving in a sweetshop, even if mum lived in a mansion and paid her own rent, even if the daughter wasn't on the Pill and sleeping with 17 year olds, even if mum ran a clean and tidy house, even if the CSA was set up so PWC were paid in vouchers.... you would still have to pay maintenance.

You have asked how to get out of paying maintenance which has caused me to sit up and take notice. I can't stand that! It's not right. It doesn't matter how difficult life is for you, life is also difficult for the rest of us. Yes, it would be good to see more people with ambition and drive, but it's not for everyone. The world needs plodders - there just isn't that much demand for qualified rocket scientists, is there?! You are judging and making excuses because you have made a decision - not to pay maintenance or pay as little maintenance as possible - that doesn't sit right with an awful lot of people, yourself included. None of what you have said about mum is relevant to your husband's responsibilities towards his child. It is that simple.

I would also suggest that if mum is running a house that is that bad, a decent parent would have done everything they could to either work with mum to ensure that the child's life is as happy as possible or would have pushed the issue through court, contacted Social Services etc. to try and get full care of said child. He is an equal parent, his responsibilities are equal, if he could do a better job at bringing her up, why hasn't he fought for her?

owdslackdraws

OHaving read over post’s again, just a few thoughts but not sure if my thinking is correct so I will try to word carefully


OP gets a bigger house/ cuts her hours at work whatever to improve life for her family and gets a nil or very low assessment.

PWC is not happy so contacts CSA and complains, CSA will advise her (if not already done so, to apply for NRPP income to be taken into account or) to close the case for 13 weeks and then open a new case on CSA 2

CSA 2 would then be 15% of NRP’s net income, less discount for the 2 little ones and possible overnight stays of the eldest.

So the idea of a bigger house back fires on OP as rent is no longer taken into account on CSA 2.

What would happen if the rent for this bigger house could not be afforded, just possible too much pressure for a 2nd marriage leaving all the kids worse off and 2 PWC and 15% of NRP’s net pay then being split 3 ways.

[SIZE=+0]Although I think CSA 2 is a much fairer system, I think overall the CSA was a bad idea in the first place, I would bet it has destroyed the lives of more people than it has helped.[/SIZE]

mspa

clearingout wrote: »

vickster,

why hasn't he fought for her?

I think OP answered that. She said they are not able to get legal aid. We are lucky enough to get it but if we didnt it would cost us with our solicitor £140 per hour just to see her then it would be extra for any letters sent etc