Dispute with Orange - your opinion needed!

gjchester

grumbler wrote: »

This requires some clarification.
The company is authorised to take a predictable amount of money, that the customer has to be informed about in advance, not any variable amount.
And it is a certain day that the customer has to be informed about, not any variable day.

Sorry your right. The customer has to be told what amount is being taken and the day but that amount and day can change as long as the customer is informed. That was probably done on the bill, ie like most bills it will say we will collect £aa.bb and this will be collected on or after xxth of yyy.

And it's important to note that's INFORMED, the customer passive approves the process. They should tell you a week or so in advance (10 days I think) and if you disagree you have to inform them.

It's not clear what the OP has and has not informed Orange, usually you can't change the amount of a DD if it's due to collect in the next day or so as it will have been sent for processing. You cn usually stop it but not change it. It could be the Orange bill included both months and the OP called to late for the change to take effect. What we need is a clear timeline of what is due, when and what has been paid. The post is confusing in this respect.

Its still not clear what is owned and when, Mayforher has said it's the november bill at fault and also the 2nd bill, it sounds like there is another Orange bill somewhere that the amount may have covered.

mayforher_2

gjchester wrote: »

Sorry your right. The customer has to be told what amount is being taken and the day but that amount and day can change as long as the customer is informed. That was probably done on the bill, ie like most bills it will say we will collect £aa.bb and this will be collected on or after xxth of yyy.

And it's important to note that's INFORMED, the customer passive approves the process. They should tell you a week or so in advance (10 days I think) and if you disagree you have to inform them.

It's not clear what the OP has and has not informed Orange, usually you can't change the amount of a DD if it's due to collect in the next day or so as it will have been sent for processing. You cn usually stop it but not change it. It could be the Orange bill included both months and the OP called to late for the change to take effect. What we need is a clear timeline of what is due, when and what has been paid. The post is confusing in this respect.

Its still not clear what is owned and when, Mayforher has said it's the november bill at fault and also the 2nd bill, it sounds like there is another Orange bill somewhere that the amount may have covered.

Youre totally missing the point. I wasnt trying to change my direct debit amount, I was trying to change the date. see my post above and above, i can't explain it any clearer! it was AFTER the whole Direct debit not being set up saga that I realised i was being billed for the wrong amount each month and my £5 bill credit that I signed a contract to receive each month wasnt being applied.

There was no other bill anywhere! They didnt take my direct debit they SHOULD have set up, they then sent me a letter asking for said money they should have taken by direct debit (novembers bill) and ALSO chasing me for Decembers bill which had only just been generated. So I called them. I had 19 days to pay the December bill and the lady told me not to worry about this as this would be taken by Direct Debit at the end of December (which incidentally it wasnt as they had still not set the direct debit up) She said she would take payment for the November bill and said that a Direct debit had never been set up on the account. I ok'd this and then she took November and December bill.

Am I really bad at explaining things or does that make sense yet?! :rotfl:

mayforher_2

Time line:

Oct 22 - Got contract with Orange - Phones 4 u arranged for Direct Debit to be taken on 23rd of every month, for the amount of £41 + a bill credit of £5 so bill should be £36 a month, dd taken on 23rd.

Oct 24 - Received bill for £43.74 - paid this over the phone as bill stated Direct Debit would come out on 9th and I was told 23rd and obviously didnt have the money for the 9th as I got paid on 20th (hence Direct Debit supposed to have been set up for 23rd). Paid this over the phone no problem, Orange cancelled my Direct Debit and set a new one up for 23rd of each month. Was told as it was changing dates, november's bill would come out by DD on 11th December, then Decembers bill would come out by DD on 23rd December.

Nov 24 - Received bill for £26.35 - was told this would be taken out on 11 December (but would come out on 9th because that fell on a sunday).

December 10 - Received a letter from Orange saying I owed £70.25 - called them to question this as bill was £26.35 for November and should have come out by DD on 9th? They said a Direct Debit was never set up. I said I would pay £26.35 over the phone and pay the rest at the end of December. Orange rep said I didnt need to because she had set up a Direct Debit for the amount to come out on 23 December. £26.35 was authorised to be paid over the phone.

December 10 - Later that evening I check my internet banking and it says I have 0.00 available and I am overdrawn. Spent an hour on to the bank trying to find out why. They eventually tell me a transaction of £70.25 had been processed. Obviously twigged this was Orange, but seen as it was the same day I thought I'll just call them back and they can reverse the payment.

December 10 - called Orange to explain they had taken £70.25. I was told that a refund had been processed for £43.90 and would be in my account within 24 hours.

December 11 - checked my account and money not in - call Orange again and ask what is happening. Told a refund hadnt been processed but that they would do so now and the money would be back in my account in 24 hours.

December 12 - checked my account and money not in - absolutely no money at all for petrol etc. Called them to ask what was happening. no refund had been processed. The lady said that the money had been applied to a bill, even though it hadnt even left my bank yet, so there was nothing that could be done. Cue several phone calls to speak to different people all telling me completely different things. Eventually spoke to someone who said he would sort it and would get back to me in an hour. 8 hours later he calls to tell me he has processed a refund but they dont do Bacs transfers or same day transfers so it would be in the next 5-8 working days.

thats basically the begining of things

Then after this I realised I had not been getting my £5 bill credit on a month. Then spoke to someone in correspondence after sending them a letter explaining that I was disgusted with how I had been treated and lied to by Orange and that I didnt trust them and wanted some form of incentive to stay with them. Correspondence called me to say they would completely clear that bill of £43.90 and I didnt have to pay it - great. They said it would be cleared on my system and the balance would go back to £0.00. but they didnt. so my account got locked out of online. Spoke to them again, they siad they would credit it to my next bill. They didnt. etc etc. I cant really be bothered typing the rest haha. BUT basically they have not responded to my first letter apart from responding saying the only way my account would not be locked is if I paid the £43.90. Told them I wanted to leave my contract. Was told I wasnt able to be released. Then they tried to blame me for the direct debit not being set up, stating that I cancelled it. I explained that I was TOLD to cancel it so that a new one could be set up. didnt get a response regarding that, just a silence.

Went on and on - they then put a credit mark on my file for the £43.90 i had not paid.

Obviously questioned this and they agree it was disputed so have removed the credit mark.

Funnily enough, I paid the money. Because I felt so sick because of the credit mark I just felt I had to. And now i'm even more mad with myself! I personally feel as though I should be entitled to leave my contract.

Even funnier (or not...) is that I just checked my online account, expecting it to be up and running, and it states that "your account is overdue by £0.00 and you will not be able to access your account until you pay this amount"......ok great. another thing Orange can't get right.

I hope the above makes more sense. There is definitely more in this story but I literally cant type anymore because it just makes me so mad!!!

mayforher_2

p.s. what would you do? haha :rotfl:

grumbler

mayforher wrote: »

They took money without my authorisation because on the phone call I only authorised them to take the amount for the Novembers bill and not the amount for the December bill.

DD doesn't work this way. You cannot authorise or not authorise it every month over a phone. It is supposed to make things easier to you and companies, not more difficult.

I tried to re-read the thread several time an my head hurts. For a moment forget about £5 that only overcomplicate things, but is not a main problem, and about other non-essential details like how many times they failed to set the DD up and how many telephone calls you have made.

1. When has the contract started?
2. What is the monthly price ignoring £5 discount?
3. When does the billing month starts?
4. What is the due date for each bill?
5. When and how much have they charged you "leaving you overdrawn out of your overdraft and with no money whatsoever"?

EDIT: I see some questions were answered while I was writing my post.

gjchester

mayforher wrote: »

Am I really bad at explaining things or does that make sense yet?! :rotfl:

Both.

Your orignal post wasn't clear and the later one was posted after I started composing the reply. And I notice you've done the same again as I started this, more a question of timing.

Lets start simple.

Why are you getting a £5 credit, is that something with Orange or Phones 4U?

Phones 4U cannot tell Orange when to take the DD, they can only say when you would like it to come out. Most companies are happy to oblige but Orange does not have to follow it, it maybe they have set days they take DD's (like only Mondays)and you didn't fall in that. And yes I know that sounds odd but my previous mortgage had to be taken on the 13th of the month as thats how they flagged accounts who did not want "valuble marketing material".

Was the bill for £43.74 actually paid. Have you checked you bank account to ensure the money left? Have you checked Orange correctly assigned it to you account? Were the payment rejected as you were overdrawn? Adding that to the £26.35 comes out close to the £70.25 you had taken.

Can you ask your bank when the Orange DD was set up and when was it first used, were there others setup and not used on your account. If the DD setup failed for some reason and Orange could not take payment they will bill you another way as they have.

It looks like that £43 hasn't been taken or applied for whatever reason, and until thats cleared Orange will keep trying to take it.

mayforher_2

grumbler wrote: »

DD doesn't work this way. You cannot authorise or not authorise it every month over a phone. It is supposed to make things easier to you and companies, not more difficult.

I tried to re-read the thread several time an my head hurts. For a moment forget about £5 that only overcomplicate things, but is not a main problem, and about other non-essential details like how many times they failed to set the DD up and how many telephone calls you have made.

1. When has the contract started?
2. What is the monthly price ignoring £5 discount?
3. When does the billing month starts?
4. What is the due date for each bill?
5. When and how much have they charged you "leaving you overdrawn out of your overdraft and with no money whatsoever"?

EDIT: I see some questions were answered while I was writing my post.

ignore. everyone is crossing wires!

robbies_gal

how did u cancel a dd though that was never set up and running in the first place?

for you to cancel it it must have existed

mayforher_2

gjchester wrote: »

Both.

Your orignal post wasn't clear and the later one was posted after I started composing the reply. And I notice you've done the same again as I started this, more a question of timing.

Lets start simple.

Why are you getting a £5 credit, is that something with Orange or Phones 4U?

Phones 4U cannot tell Orange when to take the DD, they can only say when you would like it to come out. Most companies are happy to oblige but Orange does not have to follow it, it maybe they have set days they take DD's (like only Mondays)and you didn't fall in that. And yes I know that sounds odd but my previous mortgage had to be taken on the 13th of the month as thats how they flagged accounts who did not want "valuble marketing material".

Was the bill for £43.74 actually paid. Have you checked you bank account to ensure the money left? Have you checked Orange correctly assigned it to you account? Were the payment rejected as you were overdrawn? Adding that to the £26.35 comes out close to the £70.25 you had taken.

Can you ask your bank when the Orange DD was set up and when was it first used, were there others setup and not used on your account. If the DD setup failed for some reason and Orange could not take payment they will bill you another way as they have.

It looks like that £43 hasn't been taken or applied for whatever reason, and until thats cleared Orange will keep trying to take it.

the £5 credit is something Orange offered me via phones4u.

orange offered a date for my direct debit! this is how little orange reps know what they are doing.

"Was the bill for £43.74 actually paid. yes Have you checked you bank account to ensure the money left? yes Have you checked Orange correctly assigned it to you account? yes Were the payment rejected as you were overdrawn? no?! Adding that to the £26.35 comes out close to the £70.25 you had taken. the £26.35 and £70.25 were for the November and December bills. i know exactly what they were for. "

"how did u cancel a dd though that was never set up and running in the first place?"

It was set up in my first month, I had to cancel it because it was for the "wrong date" and Orange told me to. thereafter it was never set up again despite being told several times it had.

robbies_gal

doesnt make sense thats a standing order that would be a wrong date not a dd