"poverty mentality"

thriftwizard

Agreeing that in one sense, hardly anyone here in the UK is in real, not-knowing-when-you'll-eat-again poverty, but wanting to pick up on an earlier point; buying "value" food when you can afford not to is not an indicator of "poverty mentality" in my view! If there's nothing to choose between the options other than the amount of colour on the packaging - and I know people who have worked in food production who will tell you that sometimes it really is that simple, there's no difference at all in the food itself - it's just plain daft to spend more than you have to, just to be seen to be buying the more expensive stuff. There are things where there is a clear difference in quality, or perhaps in the treatment of the animals that have given their lives so that we can eat, in which case I'll happily buy the more expensive option & get the most out of it, but there are plenty that are just as good.

Poverty mentality might perhaps be defined as thinking you don't have any choices?

thriftwizard

ETA:

A peron may look very poor to us (not quite at the eating mud pie stage) but very poor nonethless, but they may be much, much happier than their discontented, relatively poor neighbour. Some people have the wisdom to live a simple life on little money but are richer in more ways than many financially wealthy people will ever know.

Hear hear, Haribojunkie! It often strikes me that whilst I don't have a lot of spare money by my family's standards, & they worry about me, I'm actually very rich in my own opinion! Not perhaps in financial terms, there's no gold-plated pension awaiting me, but in terms of having time to spend with the people I love, time to make stuff & grow stuff, having a roof over my head that's quite likely to stay there, access to good food & health treatment - I count myself well-blessed & I wouldn't swap it for all the 6-bed mansions in Surrey, with the anxiety of a huge mortgage, kids & grandkids I hardly ever see, a job that I could lose any time someone "better" came along, a 4 hour a day commute - all the things they seem to think are essential signs of "success".
It's a funny old world...

HariboJunkie

thriftwizard wrote: »

ETA:

Hear hear, Haribojunkie! It often strikes me that whilst I don't have a lot of spare money by my family's standards, & they worry about me, I'm actually very rich in my own opinion! Not perhaps in financial terms, there's no gold-plated pension awaiting me, but in terms of having time to spend with the people I love, time to make stuff & grow stuff, having a roof over my head that's quite likely to stay there, access to good food & health treatment - I count myself well-blessed & I wouldn't swap it for all the 6-bed mansions in Surrey, with the anxiety of a huge mortgage, kids & grandkids I hardly ever see, a job that I could lose any time someone "better" came along, a 4 hour a day commute - all the things they seem to think are essential signs of "success".
It's a funny old world...

Me too.

I hate to see people so discontent with their lives, always striving for the bigger house, more money, all the things they feel they deserve. I've come across some really bitter people who think like this.

I'm not suggesting for a minute that a single mum living in squalid conditions, with not enough for her family, should not bemoan her lot but those who have so much more than many should try to find ways to be a bit more content. There is a real sense of entitlement these days which is sad to see imo. If you work hard all your life, educate yourself to the level you can, thus ensuring you are paid the salary you deserve and then are wise with your money, I think you've done well and should be happy, not miserable that you now haven't got all you want.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a bigger house, loads of land, for OH to work a bit less but it's only "the Wanties" I am grateful for the roof above me and the family I love and have reminded myself of that in times of financial hardship. It's good to strive to improve your life IF you think it could do with improvement and we will be delighted if we are able to afford the bigger house one day but in the meantime I am content and don't think I could ever feel really poor, while I have my family and friends and I realise how lucky I am to be in that position.

VJsmum

debtfreenow wrote: »

My own personal view is that a certain level of various things is necessary in order to Have A Life (ie health/money/freedom). Above that level it's called Having A Life. Beneath that level (ie because there isn't enough of health and/or money and/or freedom) is "Just Existing".

Isn't this Maslow's hierarchy of needs? It reminds me of it anyway. Maslow's hierarchy is pyramid shaped with the most fundamental levels of needs at the bottom (food, water, sleep, shelter etc) through safety (security of body, employment, family, property), love and belonging (intimacy, friendship, family), esteem (confidence, achievement, respect) through to self-actualisation at the top (morality, creativity, lack of prejudice)
The first four layers are "deficiency needs" and he says that if these "deficiency needs" are not met, the body gives no physical indication but the individual feels anxious and tense, and that these levels must be met before someone will focus on the higher levels / highest level.

But what the theory doesn't say is what each of those needs are to different people. Obviously we all need to eat, but we don't all need to eat smoked salmon and caviare (is that how you spell caviar? ), we all need shelter but some are happy in a caravan and some could be miserable in a mansion. If you can afford to live in a mansion but live in a caravan, does it make you a lesser person?

I am not OS because of poverty mentality, although i come from a very poor (in terms of money) childhood. I've said it before but, for me, it is security. In that sense i fit very well into the hierarchy - security at the lower levels means I can concentrate on the higher ones. I have, through necessity, lived up to my means but rarely beyond them - because i am afraid of not being secure in the basic needs. We could afford to spend more on housing, food etc if we wished to - but we don't. Partly because of the waste and partly through a knowledge that we can use that saving elsewhere.

Having said that, this morning my OH suggested we went out to eat tonight and my first thought was the cost. And yet we can afford it - so I gave myself a stern talking to and we will go!

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

I disagree.
We married in the early 70s when I was 16 my husband 20 so you can imagine we were flat broke for years and brought up three daughters on very low wages.
Now through the years and many promotions my husband earns way over average and we have enough savings to tide us over the rest of our lives if need be but we never waste money.
I always like to get the best value for my money and hate waste.
I love to save money literally,it gives me a feeling of security and contentment buying something I don't realy need can never do.
It also enables us to help our daughters out with the five grandchildren as I don't like to see them struggle as we did when we had children.
Strangely enough they don't seem to care for a bargain,they seem to waste money left right and center.Not on stuff I don't approve of,what they spend money on is none of my business LOL,no what I mean is they just don't seem to shop around for the best deal something that realy frustrates me but I would'nt ever mention it
I guess they just have'nt had to appreciate wht being hard-up is like since by the time they were teenagers we were past that stage and they never wanted for anything.

Mistral001

heretolearn wrote: »

Talking to someone the other day who said that OS stuff, trying to keep costs down, buying 2nd hand stuff, not spending a lot on food etc when it wasn't essential (ie you could spend more), was a sign of having a "poverty mentality".If you act like you are poor you reinforce that in your expectations/approach to life and so then while you might not be 'poor', you won't ever get rich.

Agree or disagree?

I think there is a danger of getting into a rut of poverty. It becomes a habit. It is almost like a comfort blanket. It can happen with personal finace but I think it can also happen in business. I think it affects me in both ways.

In my case I do not have any savings and my income is very low. I am self employed and due to many factors my income has dropped dramatically in the last two years.

I hope to grow the business again. I have trimmed costs down to an absolute minimum in the business, but I think also that maybe there is a poverty mentality there as well. In fact I think it drives businesss away. People always want to do business with a thriving business. If prospective clients see that you are perhaps struggling they are put off. Even though you do not have much work on and can complete the work in half the time of competitors they go to the thriving busy firms.

mum26

I like to search around to find good deals on our gas and electricity etc so that the savings mean we can have more treats,lol! Cashback from quidco and tcb on purchases I was going to make anyway really helps towards christmas. However we are really not interested in the status symbol lifestyle of some of our family members, in fact we think they are a bit bonkers paying out over the odds for flash phones etc with no incentive, we are much more into experiences, i'd rather go on a brilliant holiday and see some fab things than have an expensive car (not that I really have the option of either!). I only have to look at my mum to see that having lots of cash doesn't make you happy, she is constantly onto the next craze but doesn't really enjoy any of it sadly.

bearcub

I have no doubt at all that a 'poverty mentality' exists in this country, and some people would consider themselves poor if they can't afford to pay £200 for a handbag! Have you seen the faces of some children (and adults come to that) when they have access to clean water for the first time? Or others when they receive a shoebox filled with such things as a toothbrush, a ball and pair of gloves? They are people who are really living a hand-to-mouth existence, but they're content because their mindset is totally different to a lot of people in other countries. And that's the main point, when thinking of poverty in this country, I believe. It's not a question of 'am I starving or not', but 'can I be content with what I have' - and that doesn't include material/physical things at all!

FrugalLina

I have enjoyed this discussion a lot, but I can't help wondering what happened to the OP and her "friend" who originated the debate?

Chipps

Wow! I have just found this thread and ploughed through all of it...

It is very interesting to see different people's takes on the issue, although there does seem to be a general concensus that being frugal or thrifty does not necessarily indicate a poverty mentality.

Attitude of mind is the main thing, I think. We have spent most of our 30 years together with a very limited income, but don't feel poor (well, not all the time, anyway lol!)
For the most part it has been our own choice. Not completely, as DH does not have the qualifications he would need for a much higher paying job, although he enjoys the job he does so again this may be choice to a certain extent. However, we did choose for me to stay home to look after the children, with occasional forays into part time work when things got tough, and then to home educate 2 of them for 10 years. So I am not feeling sorry for myself when I say we have never had much money.

But... I have always seen it as my job to stre-e-e-tch every penny we do have as far as it will go! Yes, I do mean job - firms pay people to get the best value for money, and restaurants cost out each meal, including planning menus for minimum waste, so why would it not be worth my while to do the same. And of course, the money I save by buying cheaper or making from scratch does not have to be taxed, unlike money I could earn elsewhere.

Now our children are all grown up, I had ventured back into the workplace & for a while we were able to afford more expensive holidays etc, but I am now back to intermittent working, as my mum cares for my 103 year old grandmother, but doesn't drive & needs help quite often. As I haven't had any temp work now since September things are beginning to get a bit tight again. But at least I have the tools to deal with, to live on a much lower income. Unfortunately the savings we had built up to cover these sort of times are getting pretty low at the moment, but we will get by. The main thing to me is to enjoy the challenge of finding menus & ways to save. Our latest reduction is to have a water meter installed. So far the bill has halved.

What would be tough would be to not have the mindset to enjoy life whatever challenges are thrown at one. A couple of years or so ago I worked for a helpline which advised people claiming certain benefits. Some people had a real "poverty mentality". It wasn't to do with scrimping & saving, but with not being able to see any way other than being given stuff. It was as if they saw everything as someone else's responsibility to do things for them. Many had lots more money than us, but did not have the knowledge to make the best of it. It was quite sad to hear some of the problems, and not be able to give the kind of help that would really be needed. One lady I spoke to had never previously asked for any help, because she did not like to admit she couldn't read or write, but had finally taken the courage to admit it & ask. Doing that job I realised there are so many difficulties around, and that poverty is not just a lack of money.

With regard to what was said earlier on this thread about self esteem and looking nice, my feeling is that it is well worth looking as neat and tidy as possible. We all have our standards, or our definition of what is important appearance-wise, but to look as if I have bothered is important to me. I can't make myself beautiful or glamorous! But looking like I have bothered says a lot. It says I am bothered about myself - yes, I have frequently suffered from low self esteem, so this helps me - but it also says I am bothered about others. About my family and those I come into contact with - they are worth dressing decently for.

well, that's my feelings on the matter. Thanks to all of you for this thread, it has made me think about things

x