"poverty mentality"

debtfreenow

Interesting thought re "That will do/see me out" as being seen as "poverty mentality". Personally I now find myself thinking "That will see me out" about some things, but I regard it as "Might as well get the most use out of the Earth's resources" and being an environmentally-friendly thing to do (rather than a "poverty" thing to do).

I have my own personal litmus test of whether I have "poverty mentality" or no. It goes "If I were told I could have as much as I please always of 10 items of food and, no matter what happened to the Economy/my own particular finances, I would always have plenty of these 10 foods - which 10 foods would I choose?" Would I choose the top 10 most "luxury" type foods I like or the top 10 "best filler foods" and I could be sure I would always physically have "enough" to eat?

Personally, I would choose the top 10 "luxury" foods, as I would be telling myself "I've always done my bit to earn my way/pay my way - so surely I wouldn't be allowed to go hungry?!!!". I would feel, personally, that I had gone into "poverty mentality" if I doubted whether I might physically have enough to eat (and therefore chose the top 10 "best filler foods").

So, it would be "Balsamic vinegar, honey, extra virgin olive oil, etc" as my choice personally, rather than "Flour, potatoes, rice, etc".

Just my own personal take on it.

EDIT: I also agree with the "Cardboard Boots Syndrome". I've done my time paying insurance bills monthly and buying the cheapest (rather than the best "value for money") and that is certainly a money-wasting place to be.

snowleopard61

faerie~spangles wrote: »

I get 3 maybe 4 cups of tea from one teabag... I'm certainly not depriving myself. Can't stand (builder's) tea you can stand your spoon in.

:rotfl:That's my problem, I really do like that sort of tea, so the OS practice that would make me feel most deprived would be re-using teabags. There are limits!!

VJsmum

faerie~spangles wrote: »

I get 3 maybe 4 cups of tea from one teabag. I drink Redbush or Earl Grey.

Yayy - another redbush drinker - we are a rare breed!

My OH and I come from different childhood backgrounds. My dad worked in a factory, my highly intelligent mother was a barmaid. There were 4 of us children at home, and it was tough. We always had plenty of food but new clothes and holidays were scarce. OH's dad was a high ranking, well respected Architect and his mum was a SAH mum for all of his childhood. There were 3 kids and they lived in a detached 6 bedroomed house. MIL says times were tough and they only holidayed in the UK. However, this was 3 ish times a year, and times were only tough because they were paying school fees :cool:

COnsequently, he doesn't know what it's like to be without money and I know only too well. We are comfortable for sure and don't really need to be OS from a finance point of view. But, like JackieO and others, I like to be frugal so that i am secure and can then spend on nice things like holidays. For me the security is the thing. I watched my mum go from week to week eeking out the money to make it last. I watched her have to buy small boxes of soap powder because she couldn't afford the big one, even though it was more economical. To this day I cannot buy half a cucumber - it just makes me feel too sad. (later on in her life when she did have a bit of money, she had rubbish health. Life isn't fair sometimes is it? )

So, if I am careful, we can have nice things and very nice holidays. If I am careful and things go t!t$ up, we will be ok. There is also an environmental factor - I can't stand waste.

OH is now much more on board - he knows it makes me sad if he wastes loads of money, because I just think what a difference that money would have made to mum all those years ago. Although, if she were here, ,my mum would tell me to get over myself! :rotfl:

By the way - I have often regretted money spent on "stuff" but don't regret a single penny spent on holidays.

frosty

Hi,I disagree........since joining this site in July 2005,I have managed to clear £35,000 of debt and I have paid off the mortgage.We have savings for the first time in our lives.I have followed everyones tips and advice for years.Our friends spend about £800.00 a month on food (they moan non stop about it)we spend between £150/200,all my savings went towards debt.I have a poverty mindset......but it has saved us.We have a large surplus of cash every month and this is our security blanket.....I will never go back to how we were before.......the stress was too much.

GreyQueen

heretolearn wrote: »

Talking to someone the other day who said that OS stuff, trying to keep costs down, buying 2nd hand stuff, not spending a lot on food etc when it wasn't essential (ie you could spend more), was a sign of having a "poverty mentality".If you act like you are poor you reinforce that in your expectations/approach to life and so then while you might not be 'poor', you won't ever get rich.

Agree or disagree?

I would have to say that I disagree. There is a school of thought, very much popularised by the American side of the self-help books/ tapes/ lecture circuit, that wishing hard enough for something will cause reality to bend itself to your whim.

I consider that to be absolute clap-trap, but that's just my opinion. I'm of a robust disposition and reasonably-cynical but I do feel that some vulnerable and desperate people are being conned out of money and nudged towards behaviours which are certain to achieve the opposite of what they want.

However, there is a definate phenomenon of some people having an unrealistic pessimism about their personal circumstances which leads them to deny themselves basic comforts, or even modest luxuries, which they could easily-afford. I wouldn't describe that as "poverty mentality" or even as "miserliness" as it's often a form of behaviour which has been deeply-entrenched by past hardships, sometimes even by behaviours inherited from parents or grandparents who were in dire circumstances.

About 20 years ago, I knew a lady in her retirement years, the widow of a self-made millionnaire businessman. Like someone else who has posted, she and her OH had come from dramatically-different economic backgrounds. She was the adored and much-indulged youngest daughter of a leading barrister, he was one of a large family who had grown up in utter destitution. She'd had everything money could buy and he had grown up hungry and shoeless.

She wasn't the slightest bit wasteful and described being driven to exasperation by her OH's hoarding of tinned foods, bought in bulk from the cash-and-carry. They ate her freshly-cooked gourmet foods not the stuff in tins and some of these cans were kept so long they actually exploded in storage. As a very fastidious housekeeper, this drove the lady nuts.

She told me she could never wean her beloved OH from this habit and his mantra was; "It's better to be looking at it, than looking for it."

To me, that sounds like fear speaking, and I wonder how many people who hoard, or scrimp beyond what appears to be necessity, are similarly-wounded?

Ben84 wrote: »

I think it's safe to say the idea that spending more than you need to spend on things makes you wealthier is wrong. Spending wisely saves money and gives you more, but spending minimally and spending wisely are not the same thing as they have longer term consequences. Your friend may have a point that hasn't been presented well or not well recognised. Sometimes poor people are either forced to or out of bad habit make poor value choices that collectively result in staying poor. It's a real poverty trap, I used to live in it.

Suppose my shoes were wearing out 15 years ago, I had little money so only had one pair and they were worn until they broke, so forcing me to rush out and pay full price and often because of having little money I'd buy cheap stuff at full price. This is a doubly bad choice, it costs so much more in the long term as I'm not using any offers or sales and I'm buying shoes that have a poor life span. Now I have multiple pairs of shoes, all of them bought during sales and they're better quality shoes that last so much longer. This situation can be applied to any other consumer good. I have some savings to buy things and tend to buy things at a good time to buy them now rather than wait until I have no choice and get a bad deal.

Many of the higher quality items are also repairable where cheaper ones are often not and are used and thrown out. I threw away so much more stuff when I had less money, which seems amazing really now I look back. It just didn't last and it couldn't be fixed, the clothes fall apart or fade rapidly, the flat pack furniture goes flat again and the electrical stuff just fizzles out all too soon. So much cheap stuff just turns in to landfill filler and takes your money with it.

Being able to buy big packets of things is often a huge money saver, but many people on limited budgets just never find themselves in a situation to do this when they need many items each week. At the extreme end of the scale, many companies sell washing powder in single use sachets in Africa as people just can't afford a big box all at once - even though it's cheaper per gram. Seriously, poor people are buying the same stuff as everyone else and they often end up paying more per unit for it.

A lot of people on low incomes also rent houses that cost less in rent but have poor insulation, old heating systems and a high burden on the bills.

So, the poverty trap is a very real place and making, either unknowingly or because you're unable to find money for better, poor money choices keeps many people in it. A number of people who have been there now identify money saving as making poor choices, which is obviously mistaken as true money saving is about making the best choices you can, but that's what they remember and associate with it.

Excellent post, if you don't mind my saying so. And mens' shoes are very thin on the ground at charity shops; any volunteer will tell you so. I imagine it is because men tend to buy fewer shoes than women in the first place, and probably wear them into the ground. And as Ben84 observes elsewhere, you can't always find what you need second-hand when you need it.

I'm currently finishing-up the use of a pair of Ecco shoes which I bought in the sales in 2004. When they're gone, I shall use up a good quality pair of shoes which were passed to me by a friend, as I've learned that these rubber-soled shoes can crumble if you keep them too long, so my stategy, for shoes and for other items, will be to have fewer, of better quality, and to use them in a timely manner, and then replace (at sales prices, naturally).

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

If you read the book 'The Millionaire Next Door', it shows that people with high net worth - ie, money in the bank - tend to live 'frugal' lifestyles, not flashy ones.

However, I think there is some truth that 'money attracts money' and if you live like a very poor person, you are less likely to come into situations and meet people who could make money for you. Penny wise is pound foolish, as the saying goes.

I think there is such a thing as a 'scarcity mentality', for example if you are single and convince yourself that a good man/woman is impossible to find, when you meet someone you like, you will act so desperate that you will put them off!

Of course, none of this applies if you're really o/s and realise that the best things in life are free!

I've read that book too, and it's sequel, and they are real eye-openers. They're focussed on people who have made their wealth slowly, over time. Their behaviours are ones we'd all recognise here. The millionnaire wives coupon-clip, dress from middle-of-the road clothes ranges and accessorise with modest jewellery and watches (as do the gents) and they all drive modest cars. Real wealth doesn't tend to do bling and seriously-wealthy people often regard showing-off as the height of vulgarity.

In terms of attracting wealth and opportunity, you can sometimes get the nudge on opportunties by being in the right place at the right time. Hanging out in the cheap caff by the JobCentre, hard-timing it with others in similar circumstances, might be comforting but busying yourself with studies and/or voluntary work can do you more good (personal experience here). If nothing else, you can get current references from people who can take your measure.......

I guess what each of us do with our money is intensely-personal and shaped by many factors, some embedded so deeply in our psyches that we may have no consciousness of why we do what we do, only that to even contemplate doing it differently is very troubling.

lilac_lady

"By the way - I have often regretted money spent on "stuff" but don't regret a single penny spent on holidays." - VJ'smum.

Me too................exellent post.

gallygirl

lilac_lady wrote: »

"By the way - I have often regretted money spent on "stuff" but don't regret a single penny spent on holidays." - VJ'smum.

Me too................exellent post.

And me, not a penny regretted .

Decided I should read The Millionaire Next Door. New, second hand, kindle or request from library :think: ?

What would the milionaire do?

Library request in .

Justamum

GreyQueen wrote: »

She told me she could never wean her beloved OH from this habit and his mantra was; "It's better to be looking at it, than looking for it."

That's also the mantra of electricians!

GreyQueen wrote: »

She wasn't the slightest bit wasteful and described being driven to exasperation by her OH's hoarding of tinned foods, bought in bulk from the cash-and-carry. They ate her freshly-cooked gourmet foods not the stuff in tins and some of these cans were kept so long they actually exploded in storage. As a very fastidious housekeeper, this drove the lady nuts. . . .
To me, that sounds like fear speaking, and I wonder how many people who hoard, or scrimp beyond what appears to be necessity, are similarly-wounded?

Over 20 years ago I spent a few months on a kibbutz in Israel. There were quite a few holocaust survivors living there. Meals were served communally and there was no shortage of food, but many of the holocaust survivors would come armed with tupperware containers which they filled up to take back to their houses. It would be stored until it was rotten. They had no need to do it, but they did it out of fear that they would end up with nothing and suffering again, so I think in the case of your friend's husband if he had lived in poverty that fear was still at the back of his mind.

Mistral001

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

Haha yes - my other half claims that when guests come round and I offer them my 20p-a-bottle homemade wine, which she hates, that they only drink it 'out of politeness'.

I reply in that case, why do they keep asking for more until they are completely p***ed? :rotfl:

I certainly wish I had friends like that. I offered one or two some of my home brew which I thought was brilliant and got polite comments like "it certainly is very home-brewie".

Maybe that is why that cheese plant in the corner of my sitting room died!

BitterAndTwisted

I think the accusation of being of a "poverty mentality" is a terrible insult and patently intended to be one. Damned cheek!

I really don't care how other people live or what they choose to spend their own money on. They can buy second-hand underwear on ebay for all I care. What I do care about is the people who have too little to manage through no fault of their own, other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time with insufficient skills to cope properly. I just wish other people could keep their opinions to themselves and leave me alone to get on with things as best I can, most especially if they're not doing anything to help other than feeling free to criticise about the choices I make. Or gift me a fiver.