Greece...

Thrugelmir

antrobus wrote: »

It buys time.

And in the process makes solving the fundamental issues even more difficult.

Correction is a painful exercise.

GeorgeHowell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

And in the process makes solving the fundamental issues even more difficult.

Correction is a painful exercise.

It buys time while they try to put together the United States of Europe. That's why Cameron and Hague keep hinting that a referendum, or even committed date for one, now is premature because we don't know what developments are going to happen in the Eurozone which could change the picture. One perception is that it will not be so much about us leaving the EU (or at least its mainstream), but more about it, in effect, leaving us by forming a unified federal state (in all but name perhaps) of which we decline to become a part.

sabretoothtigger

The problem is theres no benefit to uniting Greece, their workers are not being used. If theres no point or use its almost certain to fail, are they going to implement force instead of capitalism.

Lending money might make some sense if the Euro was devaluing, despite all its trouble the Euro is still growing stronger.

The main reason for that is the exchange rate with dollars which in turn relates to world trade. Euro is actually getting more expensive so the Greece debt will be worse not better in future

In theory Im all for Europe, it beats going to war instead there is always worse. Im all for communism in theory but reality is it sucks, european central bureaucracy is crap at running stable economies or least EURO has been of no benefit to anyone.

Best scenario is Euro collapse which is not a devaluation as Germany will rise massively but it might be best for Greece or others to default /acknowledge past failures and hopefully not repeat or be left grounded at high tide like they are now

because we don't know what developments are going to happen in the Eurozone

We do know it has been, it is and it will continue to be a failure. Theres no shock waiting where Euro and more government is beneficial

Thrugelmir

GeorgeHowell wrote: »

It buys time while they try to put together the United States of Europe.

There's no done deal. Europe could very easily fracture. As austerity continues to bite.

Seems as people aren't in agreement either.

Merkel coalition struggles to keep power in state vote - exit poll

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/20/uk-germany-politics-election-idUKBRE90I0G220130120

GeorgeHowell

Thrugelmir wrote: »

There's no done deal. Europe could very easily fracture. As austerity continues to bite.

Seems as people aren't in agreement either.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/20/uk-germany-politics-election-idUKBRE90I0G220130120

Anything is possible but the fracturing is very unlikely because there's so much political capital in avoiding is, by an possible means. There are politicians whose reputations depend on pulling off the federal dream. Germany has pursued hegemony in Europe for over a century and isn't going to give up that ambition lightly now. The EU Commission and its satellites are on an enormous lucractive gravy train and will fight like crazy to keep it. Much of big business has a vested interest in keeping the EU together for short term profitability reasons (it couldn't care less about things like democracy). Officials in all of the countries (probably) like the way the EU is structured because it puts more power in their hands, and less in the hands of politicians, than within the nation states.

Against that huge weight of power and influence you have probably a minority of politicians, journalists, and academics who see the EU for the Emperor's new clothes that it is, and in theory you have the electorates of the countries. But the latter seem willing to do what they are told when push comes to shove in terms of voting the "right way" in referenda, accepting imposed technocrat governments, and voting for pro EU parties in elections.

It could fracture, but don't hold your breath for that happening any time soon.

worldtraveller

Pssst! Wanna buy some Greek Government buildings?

http://www.hradf.com/en/portfolio

wotsthat

I've always wanted a motorway supporting area.

System

You can get one for £10 off the internet, you get a written certificate and everything. I keep mine next to my acre of moon certificate.

purch

I've always wanted a motorway supporting area.

C'mon you Motorway .............c'mon you Motorway !!!!

He's only a poor little A Road, his surface all crumbled and potholed, he made me feel sick, so I hit him with a brick, and nothing happened at all :eek:

worldtraveller

Greece’s long-term borrowing costs breached 8 per cent on Thursday – the highest since late January – as investors fretted over the possibility that upcoming elections could derail the country’s chances of a clean exit from its bailout.

The Greek 10-year bond yield rose 85.2 basis points by late morning to 8.72 per cent. Just a week ago the yield was 6.6 per cent.

FT

Here we go again!